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Thursday, July 31, 2008

Jerkoff of the Week - Downey Savings and Loan (updated)

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Update:

- Unless you are a UCF regular, stop emailing me about this post. Period. Your hate mail will be shitcanned unread, you're wasting your time. Go here, read this.

- No information regarding the kerfluffle in the comments section will be provided to anybody outside of the UCF. If you don't know what the UCF is, you're not part of it.

- I don't want to talk to the media.

- I don't want to talk to DSL Management.

- If you have an honest question, or you are friends or family of HM3 Retmier, feel free to email me.

- Otherwise leave me the hell alone, you're getting on my nerves.

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Meet 19 year-old HM3 Marc Retmier, a Navy Hospital Corpsman from Hemet, California. He wanted to be a doctor, and saw duty to his country as a stepping stone toward that goal.

Marc's father, Steve Retmier said of his son, "His passion was always to be where the action was. He could have stayed at Bethesda Naval Hospital and been a corpsman. My son believed in what he was doing and he kept volunteering. He didn't have to be there."

Not only did HM3 Retmier join the Navy during this time of unpopular war, he volunteered for duty in the war zone. And not just any duty - he was a combat medic, arguably one of the most dangerous jobs in the ground forces. See, while the rest of the team is fighting, it is the medic's job to provide aid to the wounded. Countless numbers of combat medics have been killed or wounded in the performance of their duty. Countless numbers have shielded the fallen with their own bodies, dragged their comrades to safety, and given their lives in the line of duty. From the trenches of WWI, to the beaches of WWII, at Chosin in Korea, in the fetid jungles of Vietnam, and in the deserts of the Middle East, the combat medic has been one of the single toughest and most respected jobs in the military. It takes exceptional dedication, courage, and selflessness to be a combat medic, and this choice says more clearly than any words what kind of man Marc Retmier was.

On June 18th, a Wednesday, Retmier became the 500th Californian to die in this conflict, killed on patrol in Paktia Province, in northern Afghanistan, when a Taliban rocket slammed into his Humvee. He died, like so many of his brothers in arms, doing his duty in a dangerous and hostile land.

His parents, of course, are devastated.

A day after the news arrived that their son had been killed, two checks arrived in the mail. What we in the military call a death gratuity, $50,000, which is disbursed immediately to the next of kin upon a military member's death. The gratuity is intended to fund the fallen's funeral and provide for the family until the insurance is processed - which can take a considerable amount of time.

On June 19th, Retmier's family took the checks, the US Government issued checks, to their bank, the Hemet Branch of Downey Savings and Loan. There they attempted to cash those checks, those US Government issued checks, in order to pay for their son's funeral which was scheduled for June 26th - the following week for those of you not good at math.

Again, these are US Government issued checks, drawn on the US Federal Reserve Bank, and guaranteed by the US Federal Government.

The bank refused to cash the checks.

Or rather, they deposited the checks, placed a ten day hold on the funds, and told the Retmiers to come back after July 1st.

The family explained the situation.

The bank refused to cash the checks.

The teller explained that her manager had instructed her to hold the checks per bank policy. Period.

The family explained the situation to the manager. They provided proof that their son had died in combat and that the checks were valid and genuine. They explained that the funeral was in seven days.

The bank refused to cash the checks.

Understand, this is not some pawn shop, or one of those payday loan places - this is a bank, with the full ability to verify electronically and immediately the availability of the funds promised by the checks.

Policy, however, is far more important to Downey Savings and Loan than the death of a mere Sailor or the bereavement of his family. The bank issued a statement claiming that it sympathizes with the family, BUT it was forced to abide by its check hold policy and that policy conforms to federal banking regulations and "industry practices." Just so we're clear on this, withholding federally guaranteed funds from a grieving family of a fallen serviceman is apparently an industry practice. And this is how Downey Savings and Loan of Hemet, California honors the ultimate sacrifice of a US Navy Corpsman killed in the line of duty.

The Retmier family found the money to bury their beloved son from other sources. They have also filed a complaint with the Office of Thrift Supervision.

I find this industry practice despicable and dishonorable. I find it, in fact, criminal. Every bank manger and employee involved in this disgusting travesty should be forced to spend time riding patrol in the meat grinder, maybe then they'd find a little flexibility in their industry practice.

Congratulations, Downey Savings and Loan, you are truly jerkoffs of epic proportions, I hope you all choke on your policy and procedures. The only time I wouldn't piss on your front door is if your dammed building was on fire.

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Rest in peace, HM3, and know that your comrades in arms honor your memory.





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UPDATE:

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As you'll note, the comments thread appears to be infested with a particularly nasty and stupid troll. Comment moderation is now turned on and will remain so until further notice, apologies to Stonekettle Station regulars for the inconvenience.

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ATTENTION ANONYMOUS TROLL: Since it's obvious that you are unfamiliar with both blogging and internet terminology, let me clue you in on something you obviously don't know: I can see your IP Address. In other words, I know where you are located and which server you're logging into my site from. Surprise! And how are things there in Laguna Niguel, California?

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ATTENTION DOWNEY SAVINGS AND LOAN: Take a look in the comments section. See the nasty troll? Yeah, that's one of your employees. The comments originate from: dsl52242.downeysavings.com. Now, since tellers and such low level bank employees normally do not have internet access, or the amount of free time necessary to log into my site over 150 times in a four hour period I have to assume that the troll is a member of management. Let me ask you something, Downey, what do you think will happen when I forward my logs and these comments to your board of directors?

Update: Downey S&L, I'd like you to take particular note of where your employee, on company time and on company computers using company network access, described a decorated combat veteran as "Loser," "Big Baby," and "Moron." I'd also like you to note where that same employee referred to the family of a fallen service member, the same family who you treated poorly according your lousy press, as "Whiners" and "Bullies." Also, please note that said employee is not familiar with
U.S. Government Federal Banking Regulations. Personally, I think you've probably had enough bad press when it comes to how you've treated veterans and their families, but I leave it up to you.

You can email me at the contact information over there on the right hand side of this site and apologize - I'll give you until midnight Friday, my time - or else I'll forward my logs, and your comments to a couple of friends in the news business.

How you like them apples?

66 comments:

  1. Holy crap, what a bunch of scumbags. They truly earned "Jerkoff of the Week."

    ReplyDelete
  2. Fair winds and following seas, HM3. I honor and respect your service and sacrifice.

    And to the Bank Manager and other responsible asshats over at Downey Savings and Loan: Fuck off. Seriously. Fuck off, you miserable bureaucrat.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Jesus H. Christ, what on EARTH were those assholes THINKING?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Wow, another genius posting comments and stories that they don't know anything about. Government issued checks? Sure. Possibly counterfeit, or any potential for problems? Of course! Funny how the author doesn't mention that the bank said they would accept the checks and only place a hold on them until the funds/authenticity could be verified! What a typical hack job of someone "Informing" others. Talk about a jerk off, someone who passes around information without including, I don't know, facts?

    ReplyDelete
  5. I second that last comment; you people should get the facts straight before you say something. Just another attempt to kick our banks when their down, and make them look worse, remember that these regulations a put in place by our government. The report didn’t include this:

    Statement from the Company

    Downey Savings is saddened by the loss of Marc Retmier. Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family. As a brave soldier from our local community, he made the ultimate sacrifice for his country. We have repeatedly communicated our sympathies to his family. Downey Savings' check hold policy conforms with federal banking regulations and industry practices. Downey Savings offered to release the funds immediately upon verification of the funds. This was explained in detail to the family. Mr. Retmier's family declined the Bank's offer. We sincerely regret any misunderstanding this situation may have caused.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Anon (both of you): thanks for coming by.

    Now as to getting a few things straight, 1) I never claimed to be a "genius," here or anywhere else. I will say that I am fairly intelligent, experienced, and educated however. 2) I am not a news outlet, I never claimed to be a news outlet. I am a writer, amongst other things, but here I am a blogger. There's a major difference between a news reporter/writer and a blogger, if you don't know what that is, that's your failing, not mine. I post things what I feel like posting, and things that I feel will be of interest to my regular readers. 3) speaking of regular readers, their opinions matter to me, yours emphatically don't, especially since you both appear to be nothing more than a pair of anonymous trolls. 4) Government checks - I am intimately acquainted with government issued checks, I received one bi-monthly for many, many years as a service member. 5) Banking procedures: I am extremely familiar with banking procedures, and the flexibility any bank manager or board of directors has, my wife spent a significant fraction of her career in the banking industry. 6) Counterfeiting: I am extremely familiar with counterfeiting, I was a Navy intelligence officer and I spent many days examining counterfeit documents. The Bank has personnel trained to detect such things, it's a requirement, I know, I received similar training. Additionally, every government check contains an accounting code, which allows verification of the check electronically nearly instantaneously, which the bank is fully aware of. 7) Kicking the bank when their [sic] down: Excuse me? Downey Saving and Loan is down how? Making them look worse? How's that again? I didn't act like a jackass towards my customers. If Downey is worried about their reputation, then they should have behaved better. And frankly placing the reputation of bank above doing the right thing by a fallen service member makes you an ass. 8) this situation was NOT caused by government regulation, it was bank policy that happens to comply with federal regulations. Federal regulations are the minimum standards required for FDIC insured banks. Note the term "Industry Practice" NOT "Federal FDIC Regulation." And finally 9) I didn't include the bank's public relations statement (and that's exactly what it is) because my regular readers are astute enough to follow the links and read the whole story for themselves, refer to point 2) above.

    So, as I said above, thanks for coming by, looking like trolls, and drooling on my site. Now, fuck off.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Looking like trolls? What are you, 3 years old? Want some milk you big baby? Waaa, waaa, I should be able to walk into any institution and get $100,000 or whatever I want because something horrible happened to me. Cry me a river, loser. This is just another example of people trying to bully institutions to get their way, and you're a schmuck for trying to help it. They (Downey) should have behaved better? What in your moronic opinion is better? Handing out cash to people that kick & scream when they don't get their way? Surely, you aren't as stupid as you appear. You say you don't include the bank statement as your readers are astute enough to follow the links? Then why post any of this at all, moron? Surely, your astute reasders could have picked up this story on their own, without your stupidity attached to it. Oh wait, then you wouldn't have been able to bash a company for doing something that you disagreed with. It is morons like you and anyone dumb enough to put 2 cents into what you say that ruin the country for the rest of us.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Troll - if you're going to play on the internet, learn the terminology, dipshit.

    I'll ignore most of the rest of your nonsense in the spirit of the above definition, especially since it's patently obvious that you are mentally defective in more ways than one.

    BUT, I will address your last statement, to wit: It is morons like you and anyone dumb enough to put 2 cents into what you say that ruin the country for the rest of us. Ruin the country? I spent twenty four years defending this country, ashhole, and any dammed time you want to look me I'd be more than happy to pull your intestines out of your nose.

    Now, you're done here. Fuck the hell off. Any further comments from you will be deleted without further comment.

    ReplyDelete
  9. This tree-hugging liberal will be happy to hold the troll(s) down and provide any surgical instruments necessary for effective nasal intestinal excision.

    Natalie

    ReplyDelete
  10. You might have more credibility if you actually knew what you were talking about and it probably also wouldn't hurt if you knew all of the facts. First of all, you are bashing a savings and loan for following federally mandated procedures, not just company policy. Secondly, you have no idea what steps were taken by the employees at that particular branch to try to make an exception to assist these customers or what steps may have been taken by Downey Savings to work something out with the customers. Thirdly, your emotionally cheap attempt to link the horrible and sad situation this family is dealing with ( having lost a son ) is the lowest form of fake "journalism".....You have nothing of any value or insight to say ( other than banks are horrible villains ) and essentially are exploiting this family to get attention. Why don't you find a subject you know something about before you rush to get yourself noticed next time. I'm thinking "Jerkoff of the Week" is a title better suited for fools who condescendingly write about things they know nothing about like the author of this article and the morons who wholeheartedly agree in comments. These are the same ignorant ( and proud of it !! ) people that think banks like it when people lose their homes.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Wow....I initially thought you were just another half-informed moron, but you are so much less than that.....The more I read through this blog, the more I can see what an asshole you are.....and you clearly are a Bush Republican....That's pretty obvious by your lack of interest in truth and accuracy and by the way you want to censor anyone who doesn't agree with you.....Just what the world needs.....another jerk who makes up the "facts" to suit his needs.....Maybe you should try labeling your blog as satire.....

    ReplyDelete
  12. Marshall, AGAIN, I am not a journalist.

    Let me repeat that, I am NOT a journalist.

    And just for good measure to anyone else who reads BLOGS for news purposes, I am NOT a goddammed journalist.

    This is not "an article," it's a blog post. I.e. my opinion of a particular situation that happens to be in the news.

    Now, You're correct that I do not know what steps were taken to satisfy these customers. But since Downey Savings and Loan is obviously reading this, they are welcome to explain their side of the story. In fact, providing they meet the conditions specified in the post update, I will publish their side of the story if they so desire.

    As to a cheap shot, emotion wise, well Marshall, as a veteran of this war and the last one, and as a veteran who has buried comrades who were killed in action, you may assume that for me this is an emotional issue. Am I seeing only one side of it? You bet I am, and I never claimed otherwise.

    Note the site disclaimer up there on the right top side of this page, ranting and opinion I believe it says - i.e. take with a grain of salt.

    As to getting noticed, take a look around, Marshall, see any ads? See any gadgets to increase site throughput, i.e. fark, reggit, dig, stumble, or etc? No, you don't. I have never taken any steps whatsoever to increase readership here, and don't intend to. I write what I write because it pleases me to do so, read it or not as you like.

    Now, as to the "banks are horrible villains." Nope, read the post again. I never said, or implied, banks plural. I said this bank was acting like a jerkoff. I never said or implied anything about banks being gleeful when people loose their homes. Personally, I've always had extremely good banking service, and my currant bank is absolutely outstanding.

    You have nothing of any value or insight to say . Aye. So what the hell are you doing here?

    ReplyDelete
  13. Jim,

    I understand that you don't do anything specifically geared toward increasing your traffic. I hope you don't mind if I try.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Ooh. Got all panicky until I remembered you're moderating.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Folks, I held Marshall's 2nd comment in the moderation queue - just so I could treasure it myself for a while.

    Bush Republican. Marshall called me a Bush Republican.

    Damm, Marshall, you may be a completely unhinged wackaloon, but that gave me a major laugh. Thanks.

    Out of curiosity, was it the posts railing against Bush, the Neocons, the Republicans, the GOP, or my artwork that led you to this stunning conclusion?

    ReplyDelete
  16. Feel free, Nathan, the nuts have worked loose from the machine today, oh boy.

    Actually, I think the anon troll and Marshall are one in the same, different IP's, same neighborhood. I'm guessing Marshall just got home from work.

    How about it, Marshall, are the nurses serving your favorite pudding tonight? And do they know you've been out on the internet unsupervised?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Apparently Downey S&L is staffed by jackholes--I'm amazed that their employees would make a bad situation worse by leaving such asinine comments as you've received, on this one, Jim.

    Here's a PR tip for the bank employees: your company looks like ass. Maybe that's because they are ass, or maybe that's because various policies and regulations have conspired to make your employers look like insensitive jerks. So what do you do about it, hm? Well, one thing you could do about it is say nothing and weather the storm. Another thing you can do about it is say "We're really sorry about this"--you don't even have to mean it, you know. And I'm not talking about the sort of pseudo apology Downey S&L ended up giving in the quoted press statement: if that statement had ended halfway with "We have communicated our sympathies to the family," it would have been fine, but adding excuses--let me tell you, as someone who spends a lot of time professionally apologizing for fuckups, nothing ruins an apology like "I'm sorry...but... here's why I didn't really do anything wrong." That's not an apology.

    But here's what you don't do: don't confirm everyone's low opinion by acting like a douche. Which is what we have displayed in the "anonymous" comments and Marshall's. Here's what you should have said if you wanted to make your boss look good: "I work at Downey and I would like to let everyone know we're really sorry how this whole thing has turned out, and that we weren't able to help these folks in their time of loss. We're looking into what we can do to make it up to the family and to avoid incidents like this in the future." See how nice that sounds? It doesn't even have to be true, everyone around here would read that and feel the cockles of their hearts warm up to the folks at Downey S&L who really seem to be trying....

    Instead, you managed to leave a distinct impression that if the Retmiers were dealing with the kind of sentiments on display here, then the whole situation was actually worse than Jim made it sound, because on top of everything else the Retmiers had to deal with insensitive assholes while coping with the loss of their boy.

    Downey S&L is on the opposite side of the country from me, so I can't offer to withhold my business. But if you people are typical hires, I distinctly wish I had an account I could close. As far as I can tell from here, you're horrible, horrible people.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Nathan, what a damn good idea.

    ReplyDelete

  19. "Actually, I think the anon troll and Marshall are one in the same"


    I was going to ask about that. Same spelling, grammar and logic errors.

    And I don't see this getting farked, but the newspaper article next week talking about the moron at Downey who got fired for thinking he's anonymous on the web, will probably get that treatment.

    ReplyDelete
  20. "...and you clearly are a Bush Republican..."

    Hee! Jim's a Bush Republican! Hee!

    Marshall, or whoever you are, I say again: Fuck off. Your institution behaved badly, and then tried to hide behind your so-called "regulations" to make yourself look less like an asshat. Now you're mad because others are voicing that opinion (and it is opinion, you uneducated fucknut) in public.

    Get over yourself, and in the future, feel free to play in the sandbox of people who havn't spent decades defending the country you claim we're "ruining."

    Troll.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Hey! Interesting. I've never been in Jim's Comment Moderation before.

    Though after glancing around, I bet his wife hasn't been either. This place is a mess.

    And the way these comments are all dumped in haphazard piles, I bet their a fire hazard too.

    Good thing I brought a lighter with me.

    What's in this corner over here?

    OK. Ew. The trash really needs to go out around here, because I think those comments have actually spawned their own little baby comments.

    Which would be cute if it weren't for the placentas all over the place.

    This looks nice. Let's see, 'Dear Sir, you do not know me...' HEY! Get your hand OUT of my POCKET! You don't think I'd be dumb enough to bring any credit card of bank information in here do you? No? Well then back off!

    Hmm... Note to self. Empty pockets before coming in here next time.

    What's in this box here?

    Oh.

    Ick.

    Why is it always tentacles?

    Maybe I just shouldn't look in any boxes. Maybe I'll just wander over here where a crowd has gathered.

    Hmm... On closer inspection that group looks and smells quite a bit like it lives under a bridge. And from the way their talking, I don't think they've been eating the goats they've been catching.

    Maybe I'll just come over here. Under the light. This spot of floor looks relatively clean. I figure I can wait here until he lets me out.

    Waitasecond... are those comments over there getting closer? Shit. They are! That gang of goat loving bridge dwellers seem to be moving this way. Damn! Think! What to do? What to do!

    Right! Lighter! I'll just grab a couple of these comments over here, wrap them into a torch, and hopefully that will keep some of those more disreputable comments away.

    I hope.

    Jim? Really. You can let me out now. Please?

    ReplyDelete
  22. Why is it always tentacles?

    Michelle you kill me.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Jim, you rock. I am going to Fark, Digg, and StumbleUpon you, just for grins. :) You can never have too many trolls and folks calling you a Bush Republican, you know?

    And good lord, I would 1) never comment from work, because of IP trackbacks, and 2) NEVER EVER EVER say anything that unprofessional to or about customer or my company even if I were exhausted, PMSing, pissed, half-drunk and feeling extraordinarily priggish and self-righteous.

    So nicely done.

    ReplyDelete
  24. feeling extraordinarily priggish

    I'm not even sure what that is, but I suspect it describes my outlook most of the time.

    ReplyDelete
  25. priggish
    adjective
    "one who offends or irritates by observance of proprieties (as of speech or manners) in a pointed manner or to an obnoxious degree"

    Definitely not you, Jim. ;)

    ReplyDelete
  26. My reaction precisely, Jeri. Jim, priggish? Ha!

    I love the assumption that you are a Bush Republican. I've noticed Scalzi gets that too -- oh, I disagree with you, you must be one of Them (which ever side I'm not). That's the one downside of being a true independent.

    A downside I can live with, happily.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Ooooh, forgot about moderation! You're right, Michelle, this place is starting to smell a little ripe.

    I know you don't use it much, Jim, but really, would putting in a little ventilation kill you? ;)

    ReplyDelete
  28. Hey now, I keep the moderation queue in that little room behind the kennels. It's clean, there's fresh straw, and now you want ventilation too?

    ReplyDelete
  29. I can't stop it, must comment on idiot troll.

    Listen up fuckwit, if anyone in that particularly inept organization you seem to get a paycheck from had an ounce of intelligence and/or compassion they would have contacted the Feds to verify the check. I've done it. Hell, I've had to have the Feds tell me why they were sending us checks. They always could, and fast.

    Never mind the lousy customer service, I wouldn't want my money handled by idiots that can't follow basic finance procedures.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Oh, it gets much better, Tania, Downey's in some serious trouble. Couple of class action cases, mortgage turndown, stock in the crapper - surly employees who spend all day surfing the internet on company time are the least of their problems. Of course surly employees who spend all day surfing the internet on company time may have caused Downey's current problems, but they're backseat issues now.

    Seriously, folks, if you've got your money in DSL, get it and go elsewhere jiminy quick.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Damn! I go to work for one damn sift and look at all the fun you guys are having.

    Um..Jim?
    When it is time for the next reno...could you look at putting a fridge in here? A stocked fridge..wine, beer, Guinness for Shawn and myself, and who ever else drinks it? Maybe some Chocolate?

    TO the asswipe who doesn't have the balls to even type his/her own name?
    I worked in PR for many years, and buddy...YOU GUYS SCREWED UP. Not only am I viewing it from a PR point of view, but as a proud member of a husband and wife team who BOTH spent time in uniform.....
    You disgust me.
    I second Jim, and Janiece and anyone of the others who have said it best...
    FUCK OFF! Go crawl back under the bridge from whence you came.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Why is being Bush Republican bad?

    ReplyDelete
  33. Hmm, let's see, not only does it appear that Downey can't get their act together, the obviously haven't heard of "Check 21" yet. Clue bat to bank managers, check out the legislation passed five frickin' years ago. It'll make you look less like you're wearing asshats.

    So, is it me, or do those news stories make it sound like the Retmiers (used to, I'm sure) have a bank account with Downey? Didn't sound like they went to a strange bank and asked them to cash checks.

    Downey, you're reaping what you've sown. Can't wait to read about the lines of people withdrawing their accounts from your S&L and FDIC action. Love and kisses.

    ::points at Jim:: Bush lover! Ha!

    ReplyDelete
  34. Damn, I always miss all the fun! I was home playing Battlefield 2142 when I could have been involved in a real war.

    For the record, in case you, "Marshall" or "Anon" come back: you fucktard! Get a life!

    There, I said my peace.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Kisintin:

    Why is being Bush Republican bad?

    Seriously?

    I'll let somebody else answer that, kisintin.

    If I grit my teeth I can actually say that being a "Bush Republican" isn't necessarily "Bad" in and of itself - but me? I detest GW Bush, I detest everything he's done to this country, I detest everything about him, his lies, the dishonor he's heaped on this country, the fact that he's pissed all over the Constitution. Everything. I think GWB is the single worst president this country has ever had. I'm not a Republican because I detest what the NeoCons have done to the party. I personally think neocons are certifiably insane. The ironic part here is that I've said so, on many, many occassions. There's a link on the right hand side of the main page of this site: "Don't Assume You Know Me." Which pretty much sums things up.

    So, to get called a Bush Republican is either the single dumbest thing somebody could call me - or the most insulting, if they actually knew anything about me. In this case, I'm pretty sure it's a case of the dumbass.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Morning, Marshall, I see you're at work.

    How's tricks in the loan department this morning?

    Note the update. Clock's ticking, pal.

    ReplyDelete
  37. This is CRACKING ME UP.

    HA!

    And one more thing, DS&L asshats. Your so-called "side of the story" included this gem:

    "As a brave soldier from our local community...

    Seriously? Seriously? After fucking over his family (whether intentionally or not - I'm giving the benefit of the doubt, here), you couldn't even be bothered to find out what branch of the service this man served with?

    He was a SAILOR, you fuckstick, not a SOLDIER!

    Yeah, your sympathies are real genuine.

    Based on everything that's happened here, I'm betting that the problem with DS&L isn't malice - it's terminal stupidity. On pretty much every level.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Steve, I think you cited the wrong law - the time for holding fundsis still determined by the 1987 Competitve Equality Banking Act, according to the FAQ on the Check 21 act.

    Here is the (I think relevant - I'm way out of my depth ehre) law that's been in force since 1987:

    (2) GOVERNMENT CHECKS; CERTAIN OTHER CHECKS.--Funds deposited in an account at a depository institution by check shall be available for withdrawal not later than the business day after the business day on which such funds are deposited in the case of--
    (A) a check which--
    (i) is drawn on the Treasury of the United States; and
    (ii) is endorsed only by the person to whom it was issued;


    Eric - can you think of any reason why this US Government issued check would not fit that requirement? Unless I'm reading the law wrong here, this bank's policy has been illegal since 1987 - the funds were legally required to be avialable by the next business day, right? Am I missing something here?

    ReplyDelete
  39. Jim, I have an outmost respect for your opinion. And I respect your poisition.

    Let me clarify. With the current popular trend of putting the pres down, I personally find it extremely silly that somebody calling somebody else Bush Republican thinks of it as an insult. More than that, when somebody uses, as an insult, a personal political position, no matter how silly it could be, I would shrug and turn away.

    So, it wasn't a slight towards you in anyway. It was my incabality to understand how can something as silly as being called a Bush lover, or a Treehugger, or a Lefty, Libbie, Commy, can cause such a ruckus :)

    That's why I asked a question. If I caused discomfort, or put some salt on a fresh wound, my sincere apologies.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Unless I'm reading the law wrong here, this bank's policy has been illegal since 1987 - the funds were legally required to be available by the next business day, right? Am I missing something here?

    Eric, you rock.

    ReplyDelete
  41. It was my incabality to understand how can something as silly as being called a Bush lover, or a Treehugger, or a Lefty, Libbie, Commy, can cause such a ruckus :)

    Because despite the saying about "sticks and stones" words can hurt. When someone spouts and epitaph at you, they're not just calling you a word, they're making a judgment about you.

    Yeah, they're just words, and I'm sure that Jim wasn't actually hurt by them they were meant as an insult.

    Now of course we may intellectually realize that name-calling is the refuge of big poopie-heads who are incapable of fashioning rational arguments, but that doesn't make such infantile behaviors acceptable.

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  42. Kisintin, not at all, not at all.

    I thought you were simply asking an honest question - and completely missed the sarcasm - and did my best explain my position.

    And I agree entirely with your reply. I find it hysterical that somebody would use an assumed political position as an insult. I find it especially hysterical that somebody would use that particular insult towards me.

    If I came across irritated or obnoxious, it's because I haven't had enough coffee yet. :0

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  43. "Eric, you rock."

    Uh, Michelle, Eric hasn't commented yet. I realize I'm waaaay out of my depth interpreting the law, so I'd like to see if Eric has an opinion. Especially, if say, both parents endorsed the check adn it was addressed to only one of them - owuld that give these people (and I use that term loosely) a loophole?

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  44. On the "Bush Republican" thing, I think the relevant part is that Marshall claims to have read archives but comes away thinking Jim is a Bush Republican. I can't think of anywhere on this blog where Jim has mentioned Bush with anything other than indifference (pre-retirement) or sheer loathing, (post retirement).

    Marshall is a shallow font of wisdom.

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  45. Nathan, let's face it: Marshall's a big poopiehead, to use Michelle's epithet.

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  46. John the Scientist, I stand (or sit typing) corrected.

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  47. John, I humbly beg your forgiveness.

    Though being mistake for Eric doesn't seem like a *bad* thing!

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  48. Marshall claims to have read archives but comes away thinking Jim is a Bush Republican

    Yeah, see, Marshall didn't actually read the archives, or any previous posts other than possibly what was on the main page. I can, of course, see the posts he's read, and the only one he looked at was this one. Again, he's showing complete and utter lack of technical knowledge of how blogs in general work.

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  49. Hey, I totally rock. Michelle was just noting the obvious for our new troll-turned-lurker. Because "Marshall"/"anonymous" has a way of missing the obvious. Plus, I never get tired of hearing it.

    That having been said, I don't practice Federally and (as I mentioned here or in my linkback post), I don't practice banking law. So I don't have an informed opinion until a crime is committed. With that caveat in mind, however, as best as I can make out the only reason the statute John cites might not apply would be if the current state of the economy justifies Downey in determining that the funds are uncollectible from the U.S. Government under the safeguard exception under 604(c). [RIMSHOT! Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress. Is there anyone here from Shenectady? My agent said their was a bus of retirees coming in from Shenectady. Anyone?]

    But seriously: it looks to me like you called it, John. Nice work. I believe this makes you a peer in rockage. [Strikes pose, arms over chest, which JTS joins as the sun turns bright orange and splashes orange-and-white rays. Cue theme music.]

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  50. Hey, now, don't get all shiny here. According to Marshall, an official representative of "The Rest Of Us," i.e. real Americans for whom I'm ruining the country, we're all morons.

    ::finger::nose

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  51. Right you are, Jim.

    Morons, one and all.

    Of course, I just did a quick average of the education level of the UCF. While recognizing that I guessed in some cases, it appears that our average education level lands the collective as "some" post-graduate work.

    Not that education is necessarily indicative of intelligence - I've known plenty of degreed professionals who couldn't find thir asses with both hands. I was just looking for something with which to amuse myself.

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  52. Janiece,

    Finding my ass with both hands was a Freshman required course. I'm a little rusty on it, but I'm sure I'd pick it up again in no time flat.

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  53. Well, I've been down at the Friday Market in Palmer for the last couple of hours:

    Came back to find our friends at DSL have been snooping around. Multiple machines. Interesting. No email though. Quiting time for Marshall's branch is in about an hour and fifteen minutes.

    So, how about it UCFers? what do you think I ought to do here? Forward to DSL corporate management or to the news outlets?

    Note: I did say midnight my time, and I'll hold to that, but I like know what I'm doing at 12:01

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  54. Go to corporate head first. Then if you get no response within a reasonable time, pull out the big guns.

    After all, it's not *necessarily* corporates fault they have assholes working for them.

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  55. I agree with Michelle. Give them the chance to prove that they are not ALL like the Troll. If that doesn't work...did I mention that my husband works for 5 newspapers and several magazines? While his papers themselves may not do much damage,(given the fact that we are in another country) i am sure that he could possibly find a way to be of some assistance.

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  56. Give them a chance? Well, I guess you should forward to the corporate management. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when/if Marshall gets called into a boss's office to explain himself...

    Natalie -- overeducated and slightly anonymous...

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  57. Oh, and the husband approved of your intelligence work. :-)

    I'm a bit bummed that I didn't get to visit the Comment Moderation. It sounds like a once-in-a-lifetime place to visit.

    Natalie

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  58. I'm really, really hoping he doesn't reply by midnight Friday.
    I enjoy escalation, what can I say? :D

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  59. What Michelle said.

    What can I say? I'm all about giving people the opportunity to do the right thing.

    Even moronic, poopiehead trolls.

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  60. Here's the thing. I agree with the level headed folks here about giving management a chance to deal with management.

    But I see the other side as well. If, when the deadline runs out, you notify press type folks, the shit could hit the fan as early as tomorrow. Sunday at the latest.

    If you notify his board, we won't hear shit till Monday or Tuesday...maybe not at all. I've just got a problem with delaying gratification.

    :D

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  61. I wasn't going to vote, but I think Nathan (ironically) offered another reason to go to management first: if your press friends try to check the story out (they'd presumably contact the bank themselves, no?), they won't be able to get anyone to comment over the weekend. Even if they did, it's a longstanding PR tradition to release bad news on a weekend because fewer people follow the news then. (In D.C., bad news is nearly always announced on Fridays, and has been for decades.) So you might be able to get faster results yourself in the meantime.

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  62. Ok Folks,

    I appreciate the feedback, but the conditions in the post update have been meet. Apology received via email.

    As such I consider this matter closed. Comments for this post are now disabled.

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