It began with a fight on the Stonekettle Station Facebook Group.
Then moved to a direct message:
"It's impossible to have any kind of disagreement with your other followers without someone shooting Russian troll accusations around."
Well, maybe try not sounding like a Russian stooge then.
What’s that? Oh. You were expecting me to be polite after you opened with complains about my readers?
Sorry, please continue:
"Are you at all in favour [sic] of a debate or are we supposed to toe the line and show absolute unquestioning support to whoever the Democrats nominate?"
If you don’t want to be called a Russian stooge, maybe don’t use the foreign spelling of words either.
That said, have you ever seen me suggest or demonstrate "unquestioning support" for anybody? Ever? In any fashion?
No, you haven't.
I have said repeatedly and at great length "I don't owe any politician anything." And neither do you.
Go ahead, do a search on this blog, on my Facebook page, on my Twitter. See how many times I’ve said it.
Hint: It’s a lot.
I guess you weren't listening.
But here's the really hilarious part: You're a Bernie guy. You are. Yes, you are. Bernie or bust, right? In point of fact, that's what this is about. Isn't it? This is about your guy losing to Joe Biden in the primaries. And now, you're all depressed and mad and upset and you've come here to register your protest as if I'm the Democratic National Committee's Complaint Department. That what this is about, right?
Sure it is.
Any minute now you're going to demand to speak to my manager about my poor attitude.
"You're a smart guy, Jim. Surely you can see the problems the Democrats have with nominating Biden?"
It’s likely that I see more problems with Biden than you do.
What is it you expect me to do? Call up Tom Perez and read him the riot act? You think he’ll endorse your guy maybe? Think he’ll call up Michigan and tell them to change their primary results? That’s it, isn’t it? You bought into the conspiracy theory that the DNC diddled the previous election to favor Hillary Clinton, didn’t you? And you figure, what the hell, maybe if you complain to me, I’ll strongarm Perez into diddling 2020 for Bernie, is that it?
You slip me a $20 and I’ll see what I can do.
"How bad does a candidate have to be before you seriously question the integrity of the entire American political system?"
You’re kidding, right?
I seriously question the integrity of the American political system all of the time.
Like, pretty much every day.
Seriously question the American political system. And irreverently question it. And sarcastically question it. And pointedly question it. And profanely question it. That's essentially all I do nowadays. That. I question the integrity of the system, the morality of it, the wisdom of it, the foolishness of it, the fairness of it, the candidates, the politicians, the legalities of it, the voters, and what it ate for dinner last night and with who.
Jesus Haploid Christ, man, where have you been?
"The Democratic Party holds its left wing hostage under threat that the GOP will usher in an era of fascism. How far to the right does the Democratic Party have to be before you begin to wonder if they're any better?"
Listen, Sparky, I don't give a fig how far right the Democratic Party moves.
Anything less than fascist is better than fascism.
What’s that? You don’t think “anything less than fascism” is enough?
Heh. Yeah. Me too. But that’s where we are.
Hang on, we’ll come back to that.
I’d love for there to be a party I could support 100%, that only promoted candidates that were the embodiment of my ideals, and that was imbued with honor, integrity, and absolutely truthfulness. Sure. Why not?
I’d also love to look like Jason Momoa and have the ability to breathe underwater and telepathically communicate with fish.
So long as we’re wishing for stuff, I mean.
Look here: as previously noted, I'm not a Democrat. I'm not a Republican. I'm not a liberal. I'm not a conservative. And I for goddamned sure ain't part of your fucking cosplay "Resistance."
I'm an American.
My oath is to the Constitution. I swore to give my life for my country, not some political party or ideology or some bullshit college dorm room argument by a bunch of drunken philosophy majors. My loyalty is to my friends and family, to my countrymen – even the ones I can’t stand -- to the human race in general, and especially to the future.
And I've said so enough goddamned times that you should have gotten the message by now.
BUT YOU DON'T LISTEN.
So, let me spell it out:
The odds are very high Joe Biden is going to be the Democratic candidate.
Yeah, that’s right. Joe Biden is very likely going to be the candidate. Now, it doesn't matter if you like that or not. Very likely, that’s how it’s going to be.
If it’s any comfort, he's not my preference either. Not even in the top five.
And, since we’re being honest, frankly, I don't like Bernie either.
I’m sick and fucking tired of Bernie Sanders.
I’m tired of his mirror universe Angry John McCain routine.
I’m tired of his hippy dippy promises of some new Age of Aquarius. I grew up in 60s, I wasn’t impressed.
Most of all, I’m tired of having to pull my punches around his supporters. Who, like you, lose their shit at even the slightest criticism of Bernie Goddamned Sanders.
You’re mad now?
I said something mean about Bernie.
Yeah. Heh heh. What was that you said up above? Something about “absolute unquestioning support?”
If I can’t dislike your candidate without you getting mad, you’re not in a political movement, you’re in a cult.
You and your friends showed up on my Facebook page, on my Twitter, with an endless litany of what’s wrong with Biden, what’s wrong with Warren, and Buttigieg, and Klobucher, and all the rest of them, but goddamn, don’t be mean to Bernie, right?
But that’s the thing, isn’t it?
That’s it right there, I’ve never badmouthed Bernie. If he is the candidate, I’m going to support him 100% and I’ve said so, many times.
When you showed up on my timeline gushing about your man, while my choice was going down in flames and I was all disappointed, I didn’t tell you that you were wrong, or that you were a sellout, or a corporate whore, or unamerican, or determined to elect Donald Trump.
No. I didn’t.
I didn’t badmouth any candidate – with the notable exception of Donald Trump.
But today is a new day and since you brought it up: I don’t like Bernie.
Hey, don’t take it personally, I said I didn’t like Biden either.
The candidate I preferred – and didn’t openly endorse out of respect for your feelings – dropped out.
Now, you’re all depressed that you’ll probably have to vote for somebody you don’t like?
Me too, Bro.
It’s a bummer.
But the universe doesn’t care what I want, and Joe Biden is still very likely to be the candidate.
And showing up on my timeline and complaining about how terrible Biden is or is not very likely won't change that.
Listing all of Biden's supposed failings over and over very likely won't change that.
Dire prognostications about what Biden might or might not do if elected President likely won't change that -- though the hypocrisy of complaining about how how dire prognostications of a possible Trump second term isn't enough to get you to vote for Biden is both amusing and incredibly irritating.
Complaining to me via DM and email because you are unable to change the minds of people, because you’re unable to bend the Democratic Party to your will, and you find that terribly disappointing likely won't change that, though the probability of you irritating me to the point you get yourself blocked will be dramatically improved.
Refusal to face reality, no matter how unpleasant it might be, likely won't change that.
I have no sympathy for your complaints in this regard. I had to make any number of decisions in war where there was no good choice. I still had to choose because it was my duty to do so. That's why it's called "Duty" and not "Happy Kittens Who Fly and Fart Sunshine."
Being assholes to each other, to me, most certainly won't change that.
All of you, you're going to have a choice to make.
And the probability is high that choice is going to be, for a lot of you, unpleasant.
That choice is going to require a certain degree of pragmatic compromise of principles on your part.
Refusal to choose is a still a choice -- one that shows a marked lack of principle.
Some of you need to start getting used to this idea because the universe doesn't give a good goddamn about what you want or about fairness or about your sacred principles. Doesn’t care.
You hate that these are your only choices?
So do I.
Too goddamn bad, those are the choices anyway.
You're mad and depressed because there aren't better ones?
You see, this -- THIS RIGHT HERE -- is where I remind you people that I warned you.
I warned you in 2008.
I warned you again 2010 when you handed the House to the fucking Tea Party.
I warned you in 2012.
I warned you in 2014, when you gave Mitch McConnel the Senate and thus the Supreme Court and, thus, everything else.
And I warned you in 2016.
I’ve been warning you all for a long time, what happens when you don’t show up.
I warned you what would happen if you didn’t grit your damned teeth and do your duty to the Republic.
I warned you sooner later we were going to run out of options.
I warned you.
BUT YOU DON’T LISTEN.
You don’t listen because you don’t like the choices.
You told me you couldn’t vote for the lesser of evils.
And, so, here we are.
With more evil.
And, somehow, you’re surprised. Shocked. How did this happen? You were crying about free college, when fascism was marching in the streets.
I warned you. I did. But you didn’t listen.
And now you’re mad that you don’t have better choices?
Honestly, I’m out of patience with this. I’m out of patience with you. You’re not stupid. You know better. But you still won’t face it. You still persist in this argument despite knowing that this refusal to face reality is precisely what led directly to this very moment. And don't try to tell me that you don't know, because you damned well do. So, let's not pretend that either one of us is stupid by insisting otherwise.
The truth of the matter is this: You don’t really care.
Your loyalty isn’t to the country. Or the future. Or the people you daily tell me you care about. No. The only thing that matters to you is some pie-in-the-sky ideology. Some hippy dippy dream from the Age of Aquarius. The truth of the matter is that you just love the argument. Bunch of drunken frat boys debating philosophy in your dorm room as if people’s lives are just some hypothetical fantasy that doesn’t affect you. It's nothing but masturbation and you’ll still be jerking off as the goons are pushing the rest of us into the ovens.
I’m out of patience with it.
I’m out of patience with you.
We’re down to it and it’s more important than one person, more important than Bernie or Biden, more important than you. Than me. This is about the country, about the future, about the world we leave for our kids.
You don’t want to be called a Russian troll? Then stop acting like one.
You don’t like how my readers treat you? Then stop throwing handfuls of your own shit at people.
You don’t want to be talked to like you’re a fucking child? Then grow up and face reality. Stop complaining about how the world isn’t what you want it to be and face what it is.
You don’t like my attitude? Then don’t come to me and pretend like I haven’t been warning you of this exact eventuality for more than a decade.
You don’t like your choices? Too bad. Neither do I.
And so what?
You want a better nation? Then you need to start by being a better citizen.
"I’m tired of his mirror universe Angry John McCain routine."ReplyDelete
You hit on the NOSE.
The Dow may be tanking at the moment but I'm going to invest in aloe vera stocks, because damn that was one hell of a burn. Keep at it, Jim, but I'm sorry you have to.ReplyDelete
About 8 paragraphs from the end, "... more important THAN Bernie or Biden..."ReplyDelete
I hope you can get through to them. I sure the hell haven't been able to.
Thank you, Jim. I am thoroughly fed up with Bernie's cult members. They screamed that Warren was taking progressive votes from Bernie. She dropped out and then they screamed because she hasn't endorsed anyone (smart move on her part). Now they've started in on Biden. God forbid they admit their candidate fucked up by not connecting with the African American voters who turned out huge for Biden. Nothing but setting the country on fire will make these people happy.ReplyDelete
Don't Worry Courtney - Trump has the whole "setting the country on fire" shtick down to a fine artform. Just wait for the fireworks if and hopefully when America decides to "Flush the turd on Nov 3rd"Delete
Black voters stood by Biden because Biden stop up for President Obama. Biden had a ton more experience in politics, name recognition, and colleagues and yet he stood by the President and never backstabbed him. He did what was asked if him and offered advise when it was warranted. He stood up for a black man and that's something black people can respect.Delete
Everyone, every supporter of Bernie Sanders and every Democratic candidate that has dropped out needs to read this. Read it, think about it carefully, and take it to heart. It's not about what you or I want, but what we all need, and that is to stop this race toward fascism, demagoguery, and oligarchy.ReplyDelete
Biden has never been my first choice, but if he gets the nomination, and it is very likely, he is my only choice. I refuse to throw my vote away in a temper tantrum.
Bravo Desert Bill - stop this race toward fascism, demagoguery, and oligarchy.Delete
I'm voting blue.
I'm with you, Desert Bill. I'm 100% with you. Biden's supporters are FILLED with people that didn't choose him first, me included.Delete
But I will support our nominee, loudly and proudly, anything to rid us of trump and trumpism.
My comment? Just an applaud of your ability to hit the point and not worry about making folks mad. Spot on, Jim. Spot on. Keep on pointing out the idiots on all sides of the debate. They need it.ReplyDelete
I have been having this "it's not the end of the world if Bernie isn't the candidate", conversation with Bernie supporters all morning and walking on eggshells while i did, so I didn't hurt their feelings. Hoping they would see the truth of the situation has not helped. Thank God you have the word smith skills to express this, way better than I ever could.ReplyDelete
I like this post more than I like pie. And I LOOOOOOVVVVVE pie.ReplyDelete
Thank you so much for getting that on the record - it needed to be said and you said it so well.ReplyDelete
Ditto-thx Jim & unknown.Delete
Yes to every single bit of that.ReplyDelete
More a question for you than a comment I guess. You have said several times that your preferred candidate has dropped out, but never gave a name. Will you ever say which candidate was your preferred option? My favorite dropped out as well, but I will be voting for the best one who is still in the race.ReplyDelete
My first choice dropped out early on, then my second choice dropped out, early voting came along and I try to take advantage of that convenience and between the time I voted and Super Tuesday my actual choice dropped out. Am I mad, not especially. Disappointed is more like it. I don't like Bernie but if he pulls out a miracle and gets the nomination I will support him and vote for him. This country is more important than my feelings.Delete
I think Jim hasn't done so because he doesn't want to incite further strife on Facebook and Twitter. It seems likely that he will continue to withhold that information.Delete
Thx Ms. Red. Same happened to me. In Michigan there was some time between absentee ballot voting and the actual primary voting. Voters who had voted for candidates who had dropped out were able to request & vote new ballots. Don’t know how many ppl this involved, but it was worth their effort to make it happen.Delete
my favorite candidate dropped out, too, but I voted for him anyway, to give him numbers.Delete
"You still persist in this argument despite knowing that this refusal to face reality is precisely what lead directly to this very moment."ReplyDelete
Shades of Heinlein, "If the populace votes the impossible, the disastrous possible occurs instead." --Starship Troopers, was it?
Or DOESN'T EVEN VOTE :-(
Amen. Maybe an Hallelujah or five.ReplyDelete
Life never made any promises to you that it would be pretty. Hell, sometimes it's downright ugly.
But... in order to make improvements, you've gotta get SOMEONE other than the goddamned Republicans in power.
Ain't gonna happen by protest votes to the Greens.
Sure as hell ain't gonna happen by crying and staying home, come November.
Sometimes the only way to get the ball rolling on decreasing the amount of evil in the world is... oh, I dunno, maybe GETTING THE LESSER EVIL ELECTED!!!!!!!!!!
Logic doesn't work on these people. Sigh.
I "Hallelujah" right along with you, Brian Pickering!Delete
Blessings to all of us!
I like you better than Jason Mamoa. But the fish telepathy could be a cool thing.ReplyDelete
I would love the opportunity to shake your hand. If your journey brings you near New York (I'm in Morristown, New Jersey), I'd be happy to cook you a meal or order take out or whatever. The back yard is fenced in, so you can bring the dogs. And I always have Irish whiskey nearby.ReplyDelete
Yes, yes, yes. A million times, yes. I've had it with them, too. Either people suck it up and vote for the Democratic nominee, or they are dooming us to another four years of Trump. Period. And I, for one, will be furious.ReplyDelete
There’s no such thing as 4 more years of Trump, I’m afraid: If we don’t beat him *right now*, he’s president for life, and I won’t see another real election in my lifetime.Delete
As recently as a couple years ago, I’d’ve called that ridiculously hyperbolic; now, I’m mortally certain of it.
"Taking your ball and going home", i.e. NOT voting for whoever the Democratic Candidate is, is the height of unrelenting selfishness. Anyone, and I do not give a good god damn who it is, that says they are not going to vote for the Dem Candidate is abdicating their role as a Citizen of this Country. They do not care about anyone but themselves. This level of narcissism is DEADLY! To not understand that is beyond frightening. Anyone who does this is no better than Trump.ReplyDelete
Anyone who has read the Chiefs numerous posts and blogs and they STILL do not understand what is going on, obviously has a mental capacity smaller than they were born with. You do NOT have to love whoever the nominee is. You do have to vote for them, if you want to remove Trump and get back to some semblance of a working Government, that isn't trying to kill all of us.
May I repost your first paragraph? I know some Berners who desperately need to see this!Delete
Of course you may!Delete
i really wish they'd listen to you and everyone else, but they won't, because of the childish attitude you just mentioned. my way or the highway doesn't work, and they have YET to pick up on this.Delete
Spot on. I don't truly like any of the democratic parties choices. Haven't from the start. It doesn't effing matter. Hold your nose, do your duty, and stop fascism. Vote blue or just go buy yourself an effing red hat, get in line, and tell us rare, medium or well so the flames can be adjusted accordingly.ReplyDelete
Not even holding my nose. I'm all-in. The moment we have a nominee I get the short skirt and pom-poms, throw money and hours and work at them and get them the hell into the White house. (And it's Biden unless something catastrophic happens.)Delete
If necessary, dragging the nominee Weekend-at-Bernies-style. We have to be absolutely dedicated to this, not just holding our noses. Because our attitude and our advocacy, as citizens, matters. "Cast your whole vote - not a strip of paper merely, but your whole influence." - (the otherwise-overrated) Thoreau
Thank you for this. I get fed up with the privileged folks who threaten to not vote at all. They seem to forget that we have one major goal - to get trump out of the White House. I am always reminded of your essay - there is no unicorn that will meet everyone's criteria.ReplyDelete
Your last line should be enshrined on a highly visible monument in every school and court in this Country.ReplyDelete
Just excellent. Thanks. Made me lol in a couple of places. Thanks for that too.ReplyDelete
Pramatic choices and compromise are always part of the first days of a better nation, as writer Ken Macleod says.ReplyDelete
Well-said, Chief. I know too many people who simply insist that they have to vote their f**king conscience rather than vote for Democratic Candidate X, and it's always fun to find out whether they know that FPTP is the ONLY way to get elected - and until we get people elected, we can kiss enacting our agenda goodbye.
"Voting their conscience" just proves they don't HAVE one.Delete
Or it's horribly twisted and useless. Like tRump's.
I supported Bernie last time. I voted for Warren this time around. So, I didn't get my unicorn. Biden on his worst day is still better than Trump on whatever the Hell passes for his best, and I will do my duty.ReplyDelete
Thank you, Chief, for screaming into the wind. I hope they finally hear.ReplyDelete
Nailed it on the head as usual, Jim, apart from the pot shot at philosophy majors. We're a pretty awesome bunch as a whole. Or maybe we're not. That's the question of the ages.ReplyDelete
My interactions with Bernie Bro’s is word for word the same as interactions with Trumpistas. Only the names are different.ReplyDelete
The idea I maintain, that I heard from somewhere, is that politics is like taking a bus across town. If there isn't a bus that will take you exactly where you want to go, you still need to get on one that goes in the general direction or you will never get there. Standing around complaining about no direct bus does nothing but blow air.
"the hypocrisy of complaining about how dire prognostications of a possible Trump second term isn't enough to get you to vote for Biden is both amusing and incredibly irritating." I've used up enough "angry" emojis for a lifetime over this. What is it, anarchy or nothing?ReplyDelete
I will vote blue, no matter who. I'm no Bernie fan, nor of Biden, but what we have now is FAR WORSE than either of them.ReplyDelete
Hell, even my cat could do a better job of governing than what we have now. All this in-fighting has got to stop.
The I want it my way Veruca Salt screaming childish protest votes (Or non-votes) will just give 45 another 4 years (Want to bet he'll make it forever after that?) but hey, if, like that spoiled brat you're willing to trash the country because you didn't get your way, you're no better than the fucking fascists.
If Biden's the nominee, just swallow your self righteous indignation, and vote for him.
Jim, as usual, strikes straight to the heart of it: This is adult hood. Deal with it.
Don't kid yourself, Jim. Jason Momoa can't hold a candle to you.ReplyDelete
I wonder how many votes you would have swayed if you had endorsed a candidate. I know I enjoy hearing the preferences of people who are smarter than I am.
I really wanted Warren but that's not gonna happen. So it's going to be Biden. Anybody but Trump again. Go Blue No Matter Who!ReplyDelete
PS: I'd love to see Warren as Senate Majority Leader!
Yes, Yes, Yes, Katie-girl! She'll be very effective in that capacity - would be a good 'symbol' as VP, but more helpful to the country remaining in the Senate.Delete
And bringing along more women for the future!
Well said Jim, well said!ReplyDelete
Bravo Jim! I wish I had your gift for getting to the point and saying what must be said.ReplyDelete
That's exactly it, though. The Bernie-or-die set, certainly no fans of the current administration, appear to an individual to have a mysteriously cavalier attitude about the damage Trump has done and just how much more he can do.ReplyDelete
F f s, we have a pandemic set to kiss us all right on the lips thanks in no small part to the Trump administration's refusal to accept a WHO CV19 test available since JANUARY, and STILL the Berners feel they have the luxury of offense at the notion of "voting against".
How do you reason with these people? You don't, I guess. You just cane one for the benefit of any others reading along with a lick of sense.
spot on Mr Wright! you always know how to hit the nail on the head. I will vote for whoever is running blue against IMPOTUSReplyDelete
My sister is a Bernie Bro. She is so much of what you posted. She's not voting for Biden if he becomes the nominee. I will. It's part of my job of trying to be a better citizen.ReplyDelete
Frankly, I oppose Sanders because in some ways, he is like Trump. How? Not in his policies, but in his methods. Sanders has a cult of personality that is unwilling to do anything to support anyone else, even if Sanders isn't the nominee. His followers are just as strident, and almost as militant as the MAGA people. On the Democratic list of candidates, he would be at the bottom of my list. My top 3 have all dropped out. I will still vote democrat regardless of who the nominee is, but I would do so with trepidation if Sanders is the candidate. I am glad that it looks like he won't be.ReplyDelete
Alas. You're correct, but you're talking to the hand.ReplyDelete
I’ve followed the campaigns of all the people running because I knew that I had to vote for one of them. Trump has to go. I had narrowed down my list to three. Bernie was never on it. I didn’t like him in 2016 and liked him even less in 2020. However, if he is the nominee I would vote for him. I understand the importance of this election and my throwing a tantrum because my candidate didn’t win and not voting wasn’t an option. I have a relative (in his 30s) who is just incensed that Bernie is losing and keeps talking about Biden’s mental decline. I reminded him that Bernie had a heart attack a few months ago and wasn’t that a concern. Didn’t matter. I asked him if he was going to vote anyway and he wouldn’t answer. So I asked if the evidence of trump’s mental health was better to deal with for the next four years than biting the bitter pill and voting for Biden. Even that didn’t change his mind. Bernie’s followers are a cult and just as scary as the trump cult.ReplyDelete
Nah, you don’t really want fish telepathy: Who knows what crazy shit those fuckers are thinking?ReplyDelete
Let's see... Bernie won't move on issues, won't admit he's wrong, refuses to unite people, plays to his base, has a cult following, and disregards black people. Are you sure it's McCain he's a mirror-universe version of (albeit nowhere near as extreme)?ReplyDelete
If you don't like whose at the top of the ticket - and I don't - work on down ticket races. We need to flip the Senate - how does Senate Majority Leader Warren sound to you? We need to keep the House. We need to flip every governor and state house blue. And I will vote for good old Joe because he is so much better than the current resident.ReplyDelete
I must admit, sir, I am fascinated and quite curious as to who your candidate of choice is. But I'm not going to ask.ReplyDelete
Because it's none of my business.
Here's to voting for the Democratic Presidential Candidate in the 2020 election, and most likely the Democrats for the House and Senate seats as well because fuck the Republicans and the evil they've done to our nation.
From: "You don’t listen because you don’t like the choices.ReplyDelete
To: "We’re down to it and it’s more important than one person, more important than Bernie or Biden, more important than you. Than me. This is about the country, about the future, about the world we leave for our kids."
Had me legit standing at my desk yellin' "hell yes!" at my computer.
Hey, don't break so hard on us old Aquarian hippies...we found ourselves still alive after being promised we would all be vaporized under our school desks by Russki nukes, made it home from Nam and we thought 'whew, maybe things will get better' then St. Ronnie came along and EVERYTHING went to shit. The old curse is coming true "...may you grow old during times of great change".ReplyDelete
From IntuitiveAllen: agree whole heartedly with your comments. However you wasted your time. Tonight Trump will announce due to bad poll numbers, uhum,,, i mean the pandemic, the election is off until 2024.ReplyDelete
I’ve been encountering these whiners in another group I’m in. They’re complaining that they’re sick of it and just going to stay home. When I point out that 45 is, in fact, far worse than a perceived Biden presidency (“Biden will be just as bad, so just keep what we’ve got.”), I’m called a DNC sheep.ReplyDelete
Grrrrr! They definitely suck at being better citizens. They admit that they’re millennials, bitch about not getting their flying kittens and then wonder why those of us who’ve been there/done that with the candidates we wanted when we were younger want to throttle the little twats! I’ll be sharing the link to this essay. Maybe, just maybe, they’ll get the picture.
And I found a few more minor ones. I will try to give the lead of each paragraph, and a few words before/after the typo. Because I'm sure it's just a few typos.ReplyDelete
Fifth paragraph. Did you mean complaints?
"I warned you sooner OR later we were going to run out of options."
"Honestly, I'm out of patience... precisely what LED directly to..."
"Your loyalty isn't to... goons are pushing THE rest of us..."
Yup, got talked down to by a bernie cultist. Apparently Sanders is life (exact words) and my not adoring him is akin to saying Rosa Parks wasn't a hero. My response was that she was proving my point and Sanders doesn't hold a candle to Parks. Oh, did you know Sanders STARTED a revolution? That is, Civil Rights?ReplyDelete
I have been thinking that a Biden/Sanders ticket would be the best bet to beat Trump. They really could complement each other if they wanted to. But you know that's never going to happen. If anyone here disagrees with me, I am more than willing to listen to your argument. As long as it isn't an "argument", if you get what I mean.ReplyDelete
But yeah, the Bernie Bros and Warren Wanters are trying very hard to make Trump a 2 Termer. You hit the nail squarely again, Chief.
Could you tell me what you mean by “Warren Wanters trying to make Trump a 2 termer?” Polling consistently showed Warren supporters with the highest willingness to support the ultimate nominee. I know I - and all the fellow Warren supporters I’m connected with - intend to do so. What data are you seeing?Delete
I'd like to know, too. I'm a Warren supporter, and I'll work to get elected whoever the Dem nominee is, whether or not I like him.Delete
Yep, the lesser of the evils. Have a choice? You are not my God, this did not make me cry and I certainly don't hate you; so Squirrel it is.ReplyDelete
I keep seeing sanders supporters saying if Bernie isn't the nominee they will either not vote at all or worse vote FOR tRump. How this stance helps get a dangerous psychopath out of office and help our country I have no idea. Be a better person be a better citizen be a better American and help save the U.S. for all of us.ReplyDelete
Biden wasn't my first choice but I will vote for him. My attitude is: first we save the country with someone who will be able to heal the damage. I do think Biden has a lot of experience and that our allies will trust him. Second, with the leadership of Warren, Sanders, Harris, Booker and all the other progressives we work through Congress to level the playing field.ReplyDelete
There are 2 people on the ballot in November- trump and NOT TRUMP. Vote for NOT TRUMP!ReplyDelete
To stay motivated, I keep silently repeating the same 4 words in my mind - trump is a clear and present danger...clear and present danger,,,clear and present...
Let's do this!
I agree with you completely. Yet, I still want to whine bout it. I would have happily voted for several of the democratic candidates. Biden was my last choice. I'm old and I've voted for my least favorite candidate too damn many times. And will do so again in 2020 if I live that long.ReplyDelete
Amazing. Going to share this on Facebook. I know some of my Bernie friends are going to get pissy. Don't care. They need to see this.ReplyDelete
Same as most of the others on this thread: thanks for stating this so clearly! I couldn't agree more!ReplyDelete
I really appreciate your writing and love your grit. I don't need for this comment to appear. Just a chance to ask why I can't comment on your posts on FB. I have been a good citizen on there but I may have pushed the wrong button at some point. Any help is appreciated. Good job,Jim.ReplyDelete
Yeah. I would've gladly voted for Bernie if he won. But since Warren dropped out and my Ohio primary is next week, I'm going for Biden. And too many of the Bernie people whining on Twitter wanted US to vote for Bernie, but some of them could NOT vote. If they had all showed up it might've been different. But they didn't so Biden is going to end up being our nominee, and he's far superior to Trump.ReplyDelete
Jim's passionate evisceration of that splitter - someone who'd preen and flounce away and split our Union coalition in this phase of Civil War - was right on. Though I combat splitterism totally differently, by showing that almost everything they assert is just about as FALSE as anything spewed by Fox News. e.g. that "moderate dems won't make significant reforms the moment they are in office (look at those STATES like CA, WA, OR that have had working majorities of left and middle dems for years; they have been BUSY and get a lot done!)... or that there isn't a long list of things Biden/Bernie/Liz AGREE upon! Or that nothing got done during the 2009 111th Congress under Pelosi (bullshit; try actually knowing something.ReplyDelete
I give five pretty devastating take-downs of splitterism here:
And in POLEMICAl judo http://davidbrin.com/polemicaljudo.html
Jim, you could use some of these arguments. But I'll keep citing and linking to you.
I have ended up defending Joe Biden. I don't like the man; he has an awful record. But he is who the Democratic primary voters can agree on and Biden is not a demented autocrat and rapey traitor like Trump. Biden will not have white supremacists among his advisors and will not appoint incompetent right-wing hacks as judges. So, here I am.
I don't entirely accept your argument, though. Over the years since Reagan was elected, the Democratic Party has made more and more concessions to the right wing of the Republicans, and the right wing of the Republicans has moved more and more to the right until it is fascist. Biden talks about working across the aisle and I wonder how he can. There is not a lot left to bargain away. I know how the Reconstruction ended and the Gilded Age began, and I think we are paralleling that history. So, vote for Biden, work to flip the Senate, but give the conservative Democrats a really hard time once he is elected. As to the Republicans, burn the lifeboats!
It's not entirely making concessions to the far right. As the GOP gets more extreme and more insular, the Democrats have become the not-insane party, and have picked up a lot of actual centrists, particularly in red states.Delete
If we do get a working majority in the Senate, it will include Manchin, and Sinema, and the class of 2020 which itself is unlikely to be all that radical. The votes won't be there for radical restructuring of the system. Not-fascism will have to be enough for now.
In other countries, they have smaller parties that make coalition governments - and we should realize that we have effectively the same thing here. The Democratic party is a coalition of a smaller leftist party and a somewhat larger centrist party.
The consequence is that everyone in the coalition needs to vote for the coalition. We can argue internally about how to use the power only once we actually have the power.
There's a "lead" that should be "led".ReplyDelete
When the Bern it down cultists are stating their usual purple unicorn wishes I have found a simple way to respond:ReplyDelete
You don't fix the broken plumbing while the house is burning down. You put out the fire and THEN fix the plumbing.
It terrifies me that I still see so many unicorn hunters. I'm hoping you're getting through to at least some of them, Chief.ReplyDelete
P.S. Your correspondent may be British or Canadian - we embrace "u." Favour, humour, colour, behaviour, neighbour, etc., but I guess we're still foreign.
P.S.2 Hope you got the "embrace u" double-entendre.
This might be my favorite post of yours to date. Now I need to figure out which candidate was yours (I was #TeamPete, still am for maybe 2024 or 2028...). But, it doesn't matter, we are all Team Anyone But Trump now. The Bernie Bros better man up and vote for the nominee. I'm definitely Tweeting this pot at any of them that come after me on Twitter between now and November! Keep up the good work!ReplyDelete
I hope people don't see this as all Bernie suporters. I love the man just as much as I did in 2016 but I still voted for Hillary and I will absolutely vote for Biden. In fact, a very large amount of Bernie supporters showed up and voted for Hillary (more so than Hillarys supporter showed up for Obama and such.)ReplyDelete
My point is that Bernie unfortunately has a cultish energy around a very vocal and annoying section of his supporters, but I promise the vast majority of us know what is at stake!
Great words as always though.
I had been going to post pretty much this. The adults among us who like Bernie's ideas, but are also realists. I will vote blue, as I did in 2016.Delete
Thank you, Jim, for still trying to get through to these privileged, narcissistic, a**holes. It must hurt to keep banging your head against that brick wall.
The other problem here is that Bernie has been right about a lot and he has been right about a lot before most, if not all, major-party politicians: right about racism in in 1962, before the Civil Rights Act, right about abortion in 1972, before Roe v Wade, right about climate change in 1987…ReplyDelete
From the beginning of the campaign, though, I have also had doubts that he could win. I was wrong about the reasons: the popularity of Biden with African-American voters surprises me in the same way that Trump's popularity with Republican women does. I believe there is also a darker reason: just as Obama's election revealed racism, and Clinton and Warren's campaigns revealed sexism, it seems likely that some portion of the opposition to Sanders was antisemitism.
I fear it remains true that the United States does any utterly rotten job of selecting Presidents, and we get great Presidents only by luck, if at all.
I am going to keep on saying it - elections are not about a particular candidate, they are not about your hurt feelings, they are about your country and your society. They are your chance to nudge society in the direction of your choice, toward your principles.ReplyDelete
And believe me, there are plenty of people out there trying to shove it in the opposite direction. You don't show up, you are handing society to them.
As a Canadian I have no say, but I do have skin in the game as US politics affect us too. I love Bernie, but mostly because he wants to use tax money to give Americans what most of the rest of the First World takes for granted.ReplyDelete
I see Biden as a return to normal, which for most Americans is sorely needed right now. As Dulce Sloane said on the Daily Show: "He's familiar dick."
I'd love to see Biden run with Warren as I believe that Warren can move the country towards a more even playing field, as VP she'd have a leg up on the competition in 2024.
Frankly, up here in Canada, Warren is about as centrist as you can get.
The first time I saw Larry David's riff on Bernie Sanders was when I knew that the ruse was up. Watching Sanders debate was like watching a network television friendly version of "Curb Your Enthusiasm." It had all the surrealism and none of the substance -- just like that HBO show. It was like a Bizarro Curb.ReplyDelete
Having written that, I had thought that Uncle Joe was toast about 3 weeks ago. I'm a Warren and Mayor Pete supporter, and I was concerned that this election was going to completely derail itself by way of a Sanders nomination. But thankfully the threat of Trumpists voting en masse for Sanders was overblown. Maybe they've run out of steam or something?
Ultimately, and I agree with your assessment of dismissing fascism here Jim, the goal of the next president is to unfuck the perception of their office and its messaging. Why waste good talent on that stuff? Uncle Joe is the perfect candidate for that job, and hopefully the GOP has a decade or so of reckoning so that serious folks like Warren or Mayor Pete could actually do something useful in the future.
Sanders and David found out that they are 3rd cousins back in 2017, of course this is the age of Trump, so that was just a blip in the news cycle, even though all of the major outlets reported on it.Delete
I loved Sen. Bennett's approach, was sad when he dropped out, love Pete and Sen. Warren. I will vote for whatever candidate is on the Democratic ticket.
You know what's the problem with you, Chief? You actually expect people to clear the decks, sit down, take a deep breath, pay attention and read more than 200 words. You're never going to get anywhere this way.ReplyDelete
But seriously, thank you. An outstanding piece.
Holy shit, I wish I could write like you. Very well said.ReplyDelete
I wanted Bernie. My second choice was Warren. But... I will vote for whoever gets the nomination, because none of the Dems are anything even in the same universe as the evil that is Trump and the modern GOP.
Thank you, sir, for standing up for your beliefs. I'd thank you for your service, but you have indicated in earlier posts that you don't care for that.ReplyDelete
Continue telling the truth to power, and to those who wish they had some.
May you and yours be well, and all of us make the right decision on November 3rd.
May the God, that, while we may not believe in Her, Bless, Keep, and Save us all.
Everyone must always remember. "Politics the art of the possible". Obama likely wanted a better health plan, he got what was possible. Trump likely wanted zero taxes for the rich, but he got what was possible. Many want other candidates, presidents, but politics is the actions of many people, the art of the possible.ReplyDelete
Jim, if I were gay, I'd propose.ReplyDelete
If were gay, I might accept.Delete
I despise the purity pony crap, making perfect the enemy of good. I didn't get my primary candidate either. We haven't even had our primary yet, and by the time we do this should be wrapped up.
In a choice of "fascist" or "not fascist," you would think anyone who values their rights and freedoms could make that choice sleeping.
No candidate is perfect. That is even reflected in the Constitution's opening lineL We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union. . . .
I swore in the military and as a local politician to uphold and defend that document but more importantly what that document stands for. Exercising your civic duties faithfully is what prevents the nation from sliding into that long night from which it may never awaken.
Thank you. 61. White male. Lawyer. Spent the last 32 years asserting and defending children's rights to equitable justice, public education, physical and mental health services, and safety from adults both inside and outside their families. Unaffiliated. Will vote for whoever the Democrats nominate -- for every office at every level of government because the monster that is our impeached current President, his corrupt family and Administration, and their creators and enablers in the Senate, the House, the radical reactionary Republican ideologues they are packing into the Federal appellate courts (including SCOTUS) where the application of the law is determined, and throughout the Republicans' patriarchal White supremacist coalition of predatory greed and racial, gender, and religious bigotry is destroying our professional government and the institutions of our constitutional democratic republic. People's rights and lives are at stake, and anybody who sits it out or doesn't vote for the Democratic nominee is voting for tribal fascism -- and nobody should think that the tribe members won't also come for them as tribe continues to consolidate the totalitarian power being conceded to them by those who selfishly sit out this decisive battle.ReplyDelete
Nail on the head. THANK YOU for writing this. I want to print it out and staple it to some foreheads.ReplyDelete
"I'm an American.ReplyDelete
My oath is to the Constitution. I swore to give my life for my country, not some political party or ideology or some bullshit college dorm room argument by a bunch of drunken philosophy majors. My loyalty is to my friends and family, to my countrymen – even the ones I can’t stand -- to the human race in general, and especially to the future." POWERFUL!!! Thank you!
God, I wish I could gather my thoughts and rage so perfectly and succinctly to lay waste like that! Fucking, goddamn amen. Not on Facebook/Twitter anymore because of this exact kind of B.S. that prompted this napalm. Thank you Jim.ReplyDelete
You're my favorite. That is all.ReplyDelete
I am an oldish (66) liberal. As far as I am concerned, the Democratic party has not picked the candidate I wanted since the first time I could vote (1972). Regardless, one of the few times I was guilty of apostasy against the Democratic Party was in the 1988 election. Sorry - Dukakis was not a good choice. Since them, Gore shot himself in the foot, Kerry proved that someone else in the world could make Gore look charismatic, and finally - Hillary. There is a special place in Hell reserved for Debbie Wasserman-Schultz for that one!ReplyDelete
Like you, Jim, I am NOT happy that my first and second choice dropped out of the race. Like you, I am going to swallow whatever pride I claim to have and vote for whoever has the letter D after their name, come November. Why? Because the alternative is something too dystopian to even consider.
Like you, I really don't want to hear "Bernie didn't get the nomination, so I'm voting for whoever the Green Party or Libertarians nominate." One is simply a waste of vote. The other is the antithesis of everything Bernie claims to stand for. Why would they vote for either? Because, like a little kid who refuses to learn the rules of Monopoly or Life, they would rather sulk in a corner than learn about the game and express a willingness to play by the rules.
There - my two ducats worth.
A)Washerwoman did not crown Hillary Clinton, nor was there any other 'coronation.' Bernout couldn't muster the votes, then or now, and it was HE and his supporters who did critical damage to Clinton during the spring and summer of 2016--deliberately. Gore did not 'shoot himself in the foot': both he and Kerry lost because of election/vote fraud. And finally, your abysmal IGNORANCE of history and facts of course also makes you a Hillary-hater. In truth, she had the most progressive platform ever put forth by an American presidential candidate. Fixed all your stupidities for you!Delete
Eff. Ing. Yes. Thank you.ReplyDelete
I’m struck by the number of Sandernistas I encounter who are unwilling to credit nonbelievers with good intentions or even agency. I’ve been told that my support—now—for Biden proves that I favor an “I’ve got mine; screw you” social order. Elsewhere I see it asserted that the “Democratic Establishment” has somehow tilted the field in Biden’s favor. Sanders lost every county in Michigan: did the Democratic Establishment rig the totals, or did they merely hypnotize or hoodwink the voters? I’m assuming that no one held a gun to their heads.ReplyDelete
I know someone, a self-identified leftist who sat out the 2016 race and who threatens to do the same this year if another “corporatist” is nominated. This is a guy who would be indignant at the suggestion that he’s not in the vanguard of progressive thinking. And yet, when I asked him in an online exchange how he accounted for Biden’s overwhelming support among African-Americans (a demographic not without experience of an “I’ve got mine; screw you” social order), he professed himself at a loss before hazarding a guess that they were not sufficiently sophisticated to realize that by voting for Biden over Sanders they were voting against their own best interests.
I replied with, as they say, pardonable dryness that they might be in a better position to understand their own interests than he, a white guy raised in North Carolina, and let it go at that.
"All of you, you're going to have a choice to make.ReplyDelete
And the probability is high that choice is going to be, for a lot of you, unpleasant.
That choice is going to require a certain degree of pragmatic compromise of principles on your part.
Refusal to choose is a still a choice -- one that shows a marked lack of principle."
Puts me in mind of one of my favourite (I'm Canadian :D) quotes:
"Take sides! Always take sides! You may be wrong - but the man who refuses to take a side must always be wrong! Heaven save us from poltroons who fear to make a choice." The Rt. Hon. John Joseph Bonforte, "Double Star", R. A. Heinlein
Spot on, Jim, as always.ReplyDelete
You have your facts in order.
The problem is that the leadership Democratic Party is not on your side.
I'm a radical leftist. My 'Ideal Government' is somewhere between Noam Chomsky and Gene Roddenberry, but I'm every bit as pragmatic about it as you are. I'm not expecting everyone to abandon currency any time this week.
I think, and the facts show, that the party is bent on dismissing the movement they need to win.
I just don't see how a center right candidate has a chance, knowing that the left base of the party won't support him.
I follow a number of political schools of thought all over social media. The leftists are one of them. They've abandoned the motto "Bernie or bust" for "Fuck around and find out."
If you want the Democrats to win, as I do, the first enemy you must defeat is the oligarch funded core of the Democratic Party.
God, I wish I was wrong. This is looking like a replay of 2016.
I was against Sanders running as a Democrat in 2020 when he clearly isn't one (he says so himself) because of the shit that happened with him and his minions in 2016.ReplyDelete
And here were are in 2020 where everything old with this group is new again. The same old shit, if anything it's even worse now considering the circumstances.
I'd definitely speak out if Sanders were to every try another run for President in the Democratic Party again, he should simply run as an independent next time, take his shit and his shitters and enjoy the lot of it on their own, don't come and spoil things for other.
The Bernie cult doesn't want to vote for Biden if he is the nominee because, like fundamentalist Christians, they wish to hasten the day of their Revolution/Rapture.ReplyDelete
There is no reasoning with True Believers.
I'm sure I'm not the first to point this out but it's a little more than that. what they want is twofold, permission and an excuse. They want permission to not vote for Joe and then they also want an excuse for why him losing isn't their fault because "hey, the Democrats had the chance to nominate our guy, you don't listen, you suffer the consequences."Delete
Yeah, I'm voting for Joe even though he's less than my fifth choice. Warren was first and has been my binky for many years. It as interesting that after she dropped out there were soooo many articles in the press about how great she is, almost wistful and full of praise. Too bad they didn't show her that kind of support when she was rising in the polls instead of cutting her apart because she had an actual plan on how to do Medicare for All and then ghosting her when she started to fade.ReplyDelete
But c'est la vie - go Joe, let's get it done and maybe he'll do better than we all think, but he CERTAINLY will be better than private bone spurs.
"Jesus Haploid Christ" - I *so* appreciate a surgically-placed biology joke. Made my day.ReplyDelete
"Anything less than fascist is better than fascism."
Dumb ass thoughts like this is the reason many Brown Americans have lived under fascist conditions. See NY under Bloomberg. See the Crime act that Biden and Hillary supported. See the Draconian drug laws and prison for profit system the Dems have supported.
Hey Sparky. When Biden goes down like Hillary because Black men in Detroit and Philadelphia wont vote for the Dem party as long as they don't go full fascist.
Remember what you wrote.
"Anything less than fascist is better than fascism."
You didn't actually read anything beyond that line, did you?Delete
And if you think you're going to get a better deal under Trump, well, you go right ahead and vote for him. // Jim
I just found your writings through Facebook this week and I literally cannot stop reading. You're smart, pissed off and irreverent. You're Hunter S. Thompson for my generation. Without the ether-soaked towel on the floorboards of the Red Whale.ReplyDelete
Thank you, sir.