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Friday, December 14, 2012

And So It Goes. Again.

I've been out of pocket most of the day, as such my inbox both here and on Facebook is overflowing.

I know you're all expecting comments on the day's the week’s horrific events. 

I may have something to say later, but at the moment, I'm not going to waste my time - and it's exactly that, a complete and utter waste of my time because absolutely nothing has changed since the last bloody slaughter, since the last time a bunch of kids were mowed down by the insanity that is America and its suicidal obsession with guns and violence and blood.

My previous posts on this subject are here: The Seven Stages of Gun Violence and Bang Bang Crazy.

Read those posts, see any difference between then and now? Yeah, me neither.

Nothing has changed. Not one goddamned thing.  Exactly as I said five months ago. 

We can't even have the conversation.

And so it goes.

58 comments:

  1. My sympathies are with the families and friends of the victims, but otherwise I swear I can't work up anything anymore about the mass murder of the week. Like the line in the folk song about the War To End Wars, "It's all happened again... and again and again and again and again."

    This will stop when enough Americans want it to. Not before.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Digby made a similar comment about gun violence back in September while discussing a different topic:

    "You want to know what taking something off the table looks like? It looks like a congresswoman being shot in the head by a lunatic and her political party celebrating when she recovers enough to lead the pledge of allegiance at their convention --- but never even mentioning gun control. That's what taking an issue off the table looks like."

    (from: http://digbysblog.blogspot.ie/2012/09/obamas-army-of-dead-voters-and-welfare.html )

    Thursday evening the MI legislature passed a bill that would allow conceal carry in schools. One assumes the Governor signed it on Friday. There are those who think armed teachers could have avoided this tragedy.

    I can't decide who is more insane - people who believe that or the people this evening who were saying the lack of prayer in school caused the shooting.

    Perhaps the real insanity is in the rest of us who allow these people such control over our public discourse.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. After Gabby Giffords was shot, the AZ GOP held a gun raffle for a Glock.

      Delete
  3. Just to be clear, I am totally in favor of gun control, and wouldn't be upset for a gun ban, or even an RF chip that disables the weapon in any public place.
    Should be interesting this time around. Based on obviously preliminary news reports, it's unclear how any gun control laws would have had any impact in this case. It appears that the guns were purchased by the shooter's mother who was most likely the first victim.
    When is this going to stop? I must have a limited imagination, because I cannot see it ending in my lifetime. There would have to be something so horrendous that it convinced 75% of the states to ratify a constitutional amendment that would repeal and replace Amendment II.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A law that required all legally owned guns to be kept in a steel gun safe with access only available to the legal owner could have stopped the boy getting his hands on those weapons.

      In the U.K. all gun owners are required under threat of stiff penalty to own and use just such a gun safe. And to make sure no one else, even family members, has access to it. No reason why such a law could not be passed in any state in America. Hard to see even how the NRA could complain. It would only force gun owners to look after their guns better.

      Delete
  4. Nothing has changed.. up to this point. But I am now hearing in the blog-o-sphere/forum world that people _are_ mad as hell.. That maybe a continuation of the previous 4 years administration _does_ mean change is possible.

    Or maybe I'm still deluded. If so, could someone please keep me drunk until I leave this world. I'm not liking the crazy.

    20 kids killed, ok - as long as we keep the guns.. One bare tit, & it's a lawsuit over the immorality.

    enjoy
    bobby

    ReplyDelete
  5. Jim - -
    Sorry we have to keep referring to your previous posts.

    ReplyDelete
  6. A now former Facebook 'friend' suggested we arm the teachers, cause that's what they do in Israel. And if it's good enough for those kids, why aren't ours getting that kind of protection?
    The stupid, it burns.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I had a geography teacher who couldn't spell Africa ("Africia") and thought Tolstoy wrote Doctor Zhivago. I wouldn't have trusted him with a rubber ball, much less custody of a loaded gun in a high school.

      Delete
    2. That insane suggestion has been making the rounds - and, naturally *everyone* making it blithely ignores that Israeli teachers are all military personnel, either past or reserve. The only thing dumber than "gun culture" are the people who cling to it.

      Delete
    3. I've been posting that in Israel, everyone has had military service and is trained with guns. If that were the case, I doubt I'd have much problem with armed teachers. However, as long as it is perfectly legal for me-with no training at all- to go buy a gun and keep it in my house loaded and unlocked- the 2cd amendment nutcases can go jump. I've advocated 2 years of national service for decades. I really think-even if you could opt out of military and do daycare or feed old people or be teachers' aides or go around as ambassadors for your disability- that that simple fact would do a lot to unify us again, and make people appreciate each other. It would also put young folks in the type of structure that maybe some of the nut cases would be noticed.

      Delete
    4. I absolutely agree that every person after high school needs to do some kind of public service. It would go a long way to curb our national self-entitlement and superiority syndrome.

      Delete
    5. You know Switzerland has a large number of guns and very few gun deaths. this is because Swiss guns are issued to a well regulated militia. So why aren't American guns in the hands of a well regulated Militia? Like the fucking Constitution says they should be.

      Delete
    6. In most cantons, service weapons are no longer kept at home. Suicides have dropped.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/mythbusting-israel-and-switzerland-are-not-gun-toting-utopias/

      Delete
  7. My intuition is that a threshold has been reached, and something will be done this time. The right thing? That remains to be seen.

    Meantime, I direct everyone to Ezra Klein's "Twelve facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States" and his followup "Mythbusting: Israel and Switzerland are not gun-toting utopias."

    Based on the facts presented in the followup article, I suspect that teachers are not routinely armed in Israel, as Paul Strain's friend says.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Mom was a teacher and the last fucking thing she would want is a gun at school, let alone at home. And she killed a rattlesnake in our front yard by dropping a rock on it, so she knows how to protect her kids.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree, nsfm. I can't imagine a world where we have to arm our teachers- oxymoron-ish, if you ask me. If we ever get to that point, pull over and let me off.

      bd

      Delete
  9. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My thoughts do go out to the victims and their parents. I can't even imagine the grief.

      "We can't even have the conversation." Yeah, I've noticed this...even when it's not in the shadow of an atrocity, it's difficult to have a rational conversation with some of my American friends about gun control; bring it up now, and I'm somehow dishonouring the victims (even though it is referred to as a "shooting").

      BTW, I'm Canadian--and while we're certainly not immune to gun violence and school shootings (my wife worked on a memorial to the victims of the 1989 "Montreal massacre"), it does seem more prevalent in the States.

      Delete
    2. There was something on public television the other day on the War of 1812. It suggested that the Canadians got over their militia myth in World War I, though it left it unstated that here in America, ours is still going strong.

      Delete
  10. I *hate* that the victims have already become meme-fodder in the world of social media. Much of what I see on FB about it are memes made up of pictures of candles or copy-and-paste rows of hearts or stars, regurgitated gun control rants (of both sides) and regurgitated violent video game rants. Not only can we not have the conversation, we apparently can't even express a genuine reaction any more before falling into the same old patterns of slacktivism and rhetoric.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's just how I feel too! I mercifully didn't have access to FB for the better part of the day yesterday, but what little I saw had me rolling my eyes and thinking of Jim's previous column on gun violence.

      Delete
  11. I think it is instructive to remember that, in the 1780's when the best of the best could get off maybe 4 or 5 well-aimed rounds per minute, the Framers felt that the gun amendment should begin with the words "well-regulated".
    Sounds almost as if they intended guns should be regulated.

    Bruce

    ReplyDelete
  12. Greg - ETC(SW) USN RetiredDecember 15, 2012 at 4:31 AM

    Nothing has changed. Please consider the Mindless Menace of Violence speech by Robert Kennedy after the Martin Luther King assassination, not long before he was cut down by another assassin's bullet.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9xwxYd52VQ

    Words fail at a time like this.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Call me crazy, but just because we have not yet been able to have the conversation does not mean that the conversation will never happen. We must address the problem of guns in our country and we must keep asking our elected leaders to do just that, lead. We must have the conversation, we must have the debate, we must form a gun policy that at least attempts to prevent what happened yesterday from happening again. And we must keep trying.

    ReplyDelete
  14. The conversation about gun regulation should have happened long before those babies were born. Before the barely-grown babies gunned down at Virginia Tech were born. And the endless cycle of needless violence goes on and on.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Yes, the blogs are on fire out there about all of this. One, in particular pointed me to the Onion . . . kinda says it all.
    I recommend going from this blog (strong language) because of the music video attached at the end of her piece http://angryblackladychronicles.com/2012/12/14/the-onion-nails-it-fuck-everything-to-hell/

    ReplyDelete
  16. Arm the teachers...arm the students...a gun in every citizen's hand means 100% security...longer waiting periods, stiffer background and mental health checks impose on my civil rights...the 2d Amendment is the 1st Amendment...fuck you David Brooks...this is god's punishment for reelecting a Muslim...the UN is seizing our ammo, gotta use it...this is America's punishment for driving god out of schools...fuck you Mike Huckabee...home schooled kids are protected by a gun toting mommas...the police won't help you...Obama is coming for your guns now (for sure this time)...fuck you Fox Noise...WOLVERINES!...my God given right to bear arms...this is AMERICA god dammit!...fuck.

    When one or more people plan and prepare to take multiple lives in our community, there is no reasonable explanation or purpose. It distills down to "Seemed like a good idea." However, what is SENSELESS, HORRIFIC, MONSTROUS, MINDLESS, UNFORGIVABLE, etc, etc is the perpetual acceptance of these repeated events as the norm in our country. Multiple murders and shootings are the price we pay to worship at the gun alter. Guns are tools to project force; whether that force is applied to a deer or a child. Guns can be dangerous, so can cars. But we don't (usually) use a car to murder someone. Why not?

    Rather than institute reasonable restrictions on gun ownership for the public good (strict background checks, cool off periods, mandated education, periodic relicensing, insurance (like car ownership)), the NRA, 2d Amdmt worshipers and affiliated nutjobs in Congress pretend that we are impinging on the individual's rights and the inbred frontier, Minuteman spirit inherent in all "real Americans". Almost exactly like the slobbering, on their knees obsequious devotion to the 1% in driving the rest of the country off whatever cliff is available.

    We are never going to eliminate the opportunity for some guy who feels the need to dispense mayhem with a gun. But, if it were more difficult to obtain a gun over the counter. And illicit trafficking of guns was properly policed, then a few more children....might.....who am I kidding? Our gov't is about to cut public support and protective services in favor of ensuring a handful of billionaires pay a little less in taxes. The "leaders" who would make a difference on gun control are too busy selling us all down the river. And when your cops are downsized, you better have a gun to protect yourself. And fuck Mike Huckabee. Tommy D

    ReplyDelete
  17. And here we are again.

    You were right Jim Wright. Wish you weren't but, of course, you are.

    Kindergarten kids this time. Gunned down by some matricidal fucking scumbag. Twenty eight dead people. Mostly children under ten. And whole sorry, sad, disgusting song and dance that you summed up so well before is macabre~ly (that a word?) jiggling its sorry bones again.

    Fuck.

    Fuck. fuck. FUCK!

    Is there any hope for change and not having the whole grisly deja vu in a few months or weeks time? Any. hope. at. all? That the next one of these slaughters can be avoided?

    ReplyDelete
  18. Weapons are very easy to acquire. Every pawn shop has a selection, rifles and shotguns sell at Walmart, there are even guns at every farm sale for those who want no background check required. Accomplishing any change to restrict access will be complicated by the last four years spread of the common fictional fears of the right that the President plans to take away their guns. But guns are just the often convenient means of violence. The causes of violence are many. Mental health problems are common, treatment not that easy or affordable. Economic and personal problems grow to consume some folks. We've grown increasingly "us" and "them". Whether it's terrorists, religions, races, nationality, political party, gender identity, haves and have nots, we discount the value of "them" or claim they intend to take something from us. Pundits and politicians spout divisive rhetoric and some encourage getting ready for armed conflict to "protect" ourselves from "them". Games and movies in which violence is the whole point blur the line between fiction and reality for some, at least dull the senses about killing. Some people become casual about their guns, not securely restricting access to them. Combine easy access to guns with mental illness, anger at the "other" and tragedy results. I have no real answers about how to stop it.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I am afraid the only way anything will be done is if sometime in the future, some state
    legislature in some red state is shot up to hell by a gunman and lots of legislators die or
    are wounded. These people think it only happens to others. Gabby Giffords didn't faze them,
    she is a "Democrat" and probably deserved it. It's only when their own safety is threatened
    or violated that these assholes will act.

    knittingbull

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't see it ever changing. There will always be those that think the answer to this kind of violence is armed defense, or those that want to find a peaceful solution. I think it's just they way we're wired and/or raised.

      bd

      Delete
  20. In reading this and the linked posts and comments, I see several references to the 2nd amendment, as well as several comparisons of driving laws to gun laws. Leads me to 2 stupid ideas:

    1) #2 gives "the people" the right to keep & bear arms, not any person. The wording does make a difference in my opinion. Just look at #4, which makes a distinction in its first clause between "the people" having the right to be secure "in their persons" from unreasonable searches, etc.

    2) In the gun/drunk driving metaphors, many have tangentially mentioned insurance. Let's dive into that - why not mandate that gun owners buy liability insurance against damage caused by their property; much like you must buy insurance for your car because we recognize that cars do, in fact, cause damage occasionally? Guns are desinged & built to inflict damage.
    I'm sure the insurance companies would pretty quickly come up with incentives for training, certification, etc - when their profits were on the line. They would probably set up stricter standards than any government agency in this country would. How's that for a capitalist solution?

    Bruce

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Won't work. For one thing, car insurance is not required in all states. It's a state by state regulation, kind of like gun control. For another thing, the requirement for car insurance doesn't mean people actually buy it, so why would gun owners obtain gun insurance. Police officers don't go around spot checking drivers to see if they have car insurance. Can you imagine the reaction if officers were allowed to spot check if you have gun insurance? Nevermind the fact that at least cars are visibly obvious. Guns, not so much. I could have a whole closet full of guns and no one would ever know.

      I don't think it's 100% gun control, or mental health treatment, or the removal of god from whatever it is god has actually been removed from. I think it is a society wide attitude. I also think it will be a very long, slow change.

      Delete
    2. Yeah, all that & more. But I still like kicking around the occasional stupid idea.
      I also like your screen name, Evyl!

      Bruce

      Delete
    3. Greg - ETC(SW) USN - RetiredDecember 15, 2012 at 5:50 PM

      For the record, many, many police departments set up roadblock checkpoints randomly and especially around different holidays to do exactly that - ie check insurance, licenses, registrations, sobriety, etc.

      But the point that you don't "catch" folks running around w/guns that often is certainly a much more valid point. A checkpoint is likely to only find those who have legal concealed carry permits, assuming you had probable cause to actually search for a weapon in the first place (based on whatever other "stop" was done).

      Delete
    4. I didn't know that, Greg, Here in VT, roadblocks are common enough, but it is rare for officers to check anything other than sobriety and seat belt use.

      Delete
  21. I went to see Lincoln. Before the feature there were 15 minutes of violent trailers.... violent videos, violence everywhere.. TV show with nothing but disrespect and violence. It is so prevalent, we ignore it all, until it is in the patterning of young minds. The solution is to kill those weaker than you!

    We allowed this to happen. We all sat back and let our young people, be brainwashed, into thinking that violence is the solution. Few have family dinners at night, few spend time with families as they once did. It costs so much to just live now, that no one is able to be around for the kids, when they need support. It is really hard now!.

    We allow the big corporations to brain wash us into thinking we need 'things' which do not really improve our life and work to afford them, besides the cost of just living. Who takes kids to the park anymore, go camping just to be together... it is not the 50's anymore. The value of life is judged by things, not by kindness and time spent together.

    I am not blaming... it is just that there is no point in complaining about how bad it all is, if we are not willing to swim against the tide and change what can be changed. Do we really think that "Survivor" with all the plotting and deception is entertaining? Do we really need to expose our children to cop stories that feature bodies on slabs, as if murder is normal in life? Everything they see and experience, forms their concept of life!

    WE keep supporting big companies who create this sick culture.. WE do that! We keep voting for people owned by the lobbyists... instead of marching in protest. ONE day we will have to take our government back.

    We also feed our children foods laced with chemicals and sugar, because it is the norm and easier... it fries their little brains. This is our country.. we can take it back, by one conscious decision after another, where our money goes, what we feed our children's bodies and brains. Violence in... violence out.

    WE the people of this country, have the right and the obligation to make better choices, help single moms, who struggle and are to young to know how to nurture kids... there are millions of things the millions of us can do... if we are motivated. Because big government is not going to solve this... this is business of the heart!! This is the business of each of us to commit to doing one thing a week, to fix this problem, starting in our own homes.

    I am not lecturing, I have not always done the right thing.... but respect for human life has to start when kids are little... first we have to respect ourselves. WE must treat them with respect, let them know we are there, to listen, for the dozens of times they bring things up, they are trying to figure out. WE must let them know that we can disapprove of thier behavior, with out disapproving of them! They learn who they are and how they fit in this world, by the way we treat them, the way we teach them and where their self esteem goes, is up to us.

    It is hard to see things changing, but we are the only ones who can change the current chaotic and negative environment the kids see. God bless all those who have lost family members to violence... my heart bleeds for them... and I pray we will all move in a more inclusive and compassionate manner...

    Cairnmommy

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Beautifully put. Thank you.

      Delete
    2. I agree. What we are seeing are the symptoms of a problem much, much deeper than the effects or lack thereof of gun control and religion. The religious argument is facetious, considering the heinous crime of pedophilia ran rampant through institutions where prayer and God was an integral part of the curriculum. What I truly believe we are seeing is the affect of an American culture that has slowly steeped (the boiling frog, if you will) its citizens and children in a violence drenched atmosphere. Check out the body count of 15 minutes of the most popular video games, TV shows, including 'funny' blooper shows, slow motion sports replays. How many violent books are in the top 10 readers list? I counted 8 of 10. This current generation has seen our troops deployed in some military action their entire lives. We have been living in a proverbial heightened terrorist alert status for over 10 years. I remember the profound effect the Cuban Missile crisis had on me as a child. Imagine that feeling for 10 years . . .

      No, this did not happen overnight, and it surely won't right itself overnight. There are many aspects that need to be addressed. Tougher gun control laws are a good place to start, but not the sole solution for this madness. We have to start demanding responsibility and accountability accompany the rights and freedoms we so leisurely take for granted. We need educated dialogue devoid of ideology. We need to be aware and take action and responsibility for the violence we let into our own households via the media, any and all media.

      I agree with Jim, we don't want to have this conversation again either Jim.
      MTC

      Delete
  22. It's amusing and saddening that several of the commenters here are continuing what Jim posted about.

    To me this is a mental health issue, not a gun issue. We need to be able to identify these people before they go on a rampage. We also need to stop spreading their fame all over the place so others don't think they'll be special and famouse too.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think Morgan Freeman nailed it.

      "You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

      It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you kn

      ow the name of a single victim of Columbine? Di
      sturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

      CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

      You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

      Delete
    2. Hmm. Possibility that the above quote was not by Morgan Freeman at all. Still, I agree with it.

      Delete
    3. It was not actually Mr. Freeman. Although I'm sure he's for some pertinent thoughts on the subject.

      Delete
  23. Our good home state of Michigan is waiting for the governor to sign legislation allowing people to carry in schools, hospitals, daycare centers, bars, churches and stadiums. Makes me glad I live in Florida where whey are only half as crazy....

    ReplyDelete
  24. Let's try to talk about this as if we are all adults.

    Let's start by trying to solve the problem. Two issues are in the public conversation. Gun Control. Mental Health Care.

    The issue in this case seems to lie between gun restrictions and mental health availibility. In that grey area that is a no-man's land of regulation and freedom and regulatory restraint.

    Can we go there without cutting the other guys off at the knees. Can we compromise. Just please find a way, before more kids die at our hands.

    ReplyDelete
  25. In the few things that I have read regarding this event, one thread that I notice is the "need to understand why". 27 plus years of civilian law enforcement experience has taught me that there is no understanding of the evil. Even if the fucktard could use words that normal people understand to explain the "why" (which they don't; that is part of their "power")normal people lack the ability to translate evil into language that makes any sense.

    So far, I have noted that gun control, mental health care and school prayer seem to be the common themes. And we still can't have the conversation. My mini rant: the same guy (Facebook friend and co-worker) who knows that all public school teachers are liberal, pot smoking, pacifist idiots now wants them to have access to guns in
    their classrooms.

    Jim, I read the earlier links. You've said it all. I comment here only because I am new to the Station.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Okay we all have to admit that the probability of altering the 2nd amendment, even after this latest slaughter, is still just about exactly zero.

    BUT: there is nothing at all stopping any state from passing a law that 'Regulates its own Militia'. In other words, Connecticut, or any other state, could, quite legally under the constitution, pass a law that says the only people in the state who are allowed to bear arms are people who are members of the 'state militia', and then they could create a state 'militia' which would be in essence no more than a responsible gun-owners charter.

    Anyone would be allowed to join, subject to background checks, training, and ongoing re-up checks every few years, including, say a letter from the 'militia person's doctor saying he or she has no known personality disorders this year, and under such a law certain kinds of firearms could be entirely banned, and real decent gun control could be enacted, because once a state had a 'well ordered militia' then no one who was NOT a member could claim she or he was being denied any 2nd amendment 'right' by being denied the right to own a firearm.

    It would have to be done state by state, in order to satisfy the 2nd Amendment, rather than by the Federal Government.

    But the Federal Government could offer big incentives to any state that created such a 'militia'. They could offer to fund the 'militia' programs
    entirely, or even offer further money on top for related programs, such as looking after the victims of firearms, etc.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. All states have a militia. It is called the National Guard, under the command of the governor. A majority of the Supreme Court, however, has stated that the Second Amendment is an individual right and the prefacing clause about a well regulated (meaning well trained and disciplined) militia was just an example. While a minority of the Supreme Court disagrees, unfortunately this is the law's interpretation right now. As such, your excellent idea may not be accepted as constitutional, even though it imposes minimal very reasonable requirements. I'd like to see it tried.

      Delete
    2. If membership of the militia was broadened to include anyone who wished to prove him or herself fit to own firearms, I think the personal right to bear arms would be satisfied. After all it is not an absolute right. In many states it is not permitted for convicted felons to own arms. Or legally insane people. There are limits. And those limits have long been accepted as constitutional.

      Delete
  27. I think it's high time the first part of the 2nd Amendment was paid attention to. 'A WELL REGULATED militia being necessary......' You don't hear much about that part, only the second part - "You can't infringe on my right to bear arms.

    We already regulate people's ability to "bear arms" You cannot go out and purchase an operating M1 tank and AP ammo, nor can you (a normal citizen) buy or possess high explosives or an attack helicopter or a working artillery piece. What is wrong with now adding semi-automatic weapons to the list of things that normal citizens can't buy?

    I know - "You can't infringe on my right to own any weapons I want". (my brother). Oh, yeah, say I - and discussed the preceding paragraph with him. No effect. None at all. Repeat of the same tiresome diatribe about being able to defend ourselves against the bad guys, the gummint, the invaders. Ahhhhhh!!

    It's time to talk seriously about the well regulated part. I have no problem with people owning guns for hunting, target shooting, even personal protection if they want. However, I see no reason for the ownership of semi-automatic rifles similar to what was used the other day. Or large magazines, or armor piercing bullets, or dum dum bullets or..... you get the idea. The CT State Police report that the ammunition used was designed to "expend all it's energy in the flesh" (their words). Again, for what reason is this type of ammunition (which sounds like the description of the M16 5.56 ammo we were issued in the Army) available legally to the public. This guy used legally owned weapons and legally bought ammunition. So much for the argument that the bad guys will still get weapons illegally. Too many of these horrors have been committed by people with their own or someone else's legal weapons and ammo.

    All these conspiricy wingnuts claim we need to have an armed populace to rise up and confront the government if it gets too oppressive. As if these semi-auto rifles will stop the governments tanks, APCs, fighter bombers and artillery. Listening to their arguments is just laughable. My brother is one of these wingnuts. His facebook page is just his forum to post every anti-Obama, pro weapons for all poster and post that he finds. I can't even talk to him.

    Once I left the Army, I decided no more guns. I had my fill and they hold no interest at all for me. Just a tool of my former profession. I'll put my trust in the local police to protect me. Just my decision (well, and my wife's - she wouldn't stick around if there were guns in the house and I'd like her to stay :-) ). But I have no issue with others owning any weapons they want, within the "well regulated" rules.

    The 2nd Amendment was written and passed at the time when there had to be a militia, with all the males showing up and bringing their personal weapons with them. There was no standing army, no draft to create one. Just a call for volunteers. It's an 18th century Amendment written for the times and weapons of the 18th century. Time to apply some 21st century logic to it. Way past time. You want to play with cool weapons - join the well regulated militia. It's called the Army or the Marines or the National Guard.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You don't hear much about that part because numerous rulings from the Supreme Court of the United States says that's a red herring. They have repeated stated that a malitia is not the point of the amendment.

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  28. I disagree with the poster above (EVYL) who seems to believe that insurance requirement is impossible. We do regulate cars, we do require that the owners insure them; we do keep excellent track of the vehicles, and we levy some impressive financial penalties on people who refuse to stay within the laws. We also compel auto manufacturers to recall faulty, dangerous vehicles. Why shouldn't we compel the manufacturer of the Bushmaster to pay for all those funerals in Newtown?

    If Nancy Lanza had been paying $10,000 per month in insurance premiums for her arsenal, she might have given up the arsenal. Then she would have had money to get treatment for her son.

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    1. The unspoken belief here is that treatment=cure. Not so. Many mentally ill people have had treatment, few have been cured. Most are kept under control by medication. It would be nice if all who needed it got treatment, but we don't have enough people in the mental health field to cope with the number of crazies we have. Besides, the mental health field is as incompetent and clueless as the rest of the medical field.

      You are making an assumption that Nancy Lanza didn't get help for her son. We don't know yet. She may have taken advantage of all that was available to her and her son. She may not have. But neither you nor I have a right to judge her.

      Jeanne in WV

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  29. It seems to be the same set of people who argue that:
    (a) Gun regulations are wrong.
    (b) Voting restrictions protect you.
    (c) Health care for all is wrong (including mental health care).
    (d) Mass murders (plural) are isolated incidents caused by crazy people. [note internal contradiction]

    Note the way that many of these points contradict each other. First we need sane voters to elect sane legislators. Only then can we discuss sane laws. Right now, batshit crazy radial reactionary Tea Baggers are in control of state legislatures and the House of Representatives. This has a directly harmful effect on our lives.

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    1. Correction:
      WE can discuss all the laws we want passed. The Tea Baggers don't listen to sane people. I just hope the few sane GOP members side with the Dark Side (Democrats) in spite of TP obstinacy, calls of being RINOs, and primary threats from their right.

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  30. And in other news --

    "Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., sought to amend the [$631 billion defense] bill [for reshaping a military that is disengaging from a decade of warfare] to stop the Veterans Affairs Department from putting the names of veterans deemed too mentally incompetent to handle their finances into the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which prohibits them from buying or owning firearms."
    --AP

    I'm at a loss for words.

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  31. So very true. A sad facet of our society is exposed.

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