tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post7150257732000412968..comments2024-03-28T14:52:13.218-05:00Comments on Stonekettle Station: The Zimmerman Verdict: Anatomy Of A TragedyJim Wrighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comBlogger182125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-48391197603426530692013-08-01T01:45:04.010-05:002013-08-01T01:45:04.010-05:00GZ doesn't seem to be hiding out in some anony...GZ doesn't seem to be hiding out in some anonymous hole, with his life never being the same. I've heard of at least two public contacts, one in regard to providing some kind of assistance in an auto rollover, which is fine, and just today a report that he was stopped for speeding in Texas and had a firearm in the glove box. That's pretty much stupid.Lee Ihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15721969338069074639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-6934941109760981492013-08-01T01:21:28.476-05:002013-08-01T01:21:28.476-05:00Lucas, sure they still stop and hassle black peopl...Lucas, sure they still stop and hassle black people in some places. And that is racist and wrong. My point was THEY STOP THEM AND TALK TO THEM, they don't shoot them, and if Zimmmerman had been a cop, even a racist scum of a cop, he still would have known how to do that. He would have known that's what cops do. He would have done what they do to get the message those cops are trying to send across: this is not where you should be. Of course he would then have found out that it was exactly where Martin did belong. I'm not attempting to say anything as silly as there are no racist cops. I'm saying even racist cops aren't out seeking violent confrontation the way Zimmerman clearly was.<br /><br />There is another aspect to this crime that I haven't heard anyone talk about much. In places like that "gated community" in Sanford, what was really suspicious about Martin- in Zimmmerman's view- wasn't ONLY that he was black, it was that he was walking. All the adults who live there have cars. Martin was tall as an adult. It was a dark and rainy night. Therefore if he belonged there he would have been in a car. This assumption turned out to be obviously absurd and wrong, and a cop would have had the sense to find out if it was wrong or right as a first order of business. <br /><br />Stopping people who don't seem to fit in where they are walking on a dark and rainy night is more or less the job of neighborhood cops. Seeking violent confrontation in the first instance is absolutely not their job, and, more to the point, not what they do. Hassle is hassle, and if it's racially profiled hassle it's crap, but it's a long long way from what Zimmerman was doing. <br /><br />BB<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-46847375791343874912013-07-31T17:10:26.183-05:002013-07-31T17:10:26.183-05:00I suggest you go and read this diary, Mr. Van Flee...I suggest you go and read this diary, Mr. Van Fleet, as it not only has the most concise and comprehensive examination of the evidence, with pictures, but it clearly shows why Zimmerman is a liar.<br /><br /><br />Jeff LammCthulhuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08097786256433955754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-26450843193265588432013-07-31T16:41:27.839-05:002013-07-31T16:41:27.839-05:00"Any cop I have ever met would have been able..."Any cop I have ever met would have been able to figure out that the boy was merely walking home after buying candy and soda without any kind of confrontation whatever. Cops aren't out looking for confrontation on dark rainy nights."<br /><br />Point of order. There are LOTS of cops who stop and hassle black folks just for walking in the wrong neighborhood. It happens quite a lot.Lucas Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-88194225727828205462013-07-31T13:07:38.363-05:002013-07-31T13:07:38.363-05:00If he hadn't had that shooter in his pocket (o...If he hadn't had that shooter in his pocket (or his hand) he would never have had the courage to seek the confrontation. The gun laws are the ones you want to be concentrating on. The rest is silage in comparison. <br /><br />BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-89768876133011988192013-07-31T10:15:09.810-05:002013-07-31T10:15:09.810-05:00I don't see in this article where it says what...I don't see in this article where it says what you indicate in your first sentence. Is there another article that shows that? 92 MOGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09740446813671879298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-5836503605077237302013-07-30T17:42:35.215-05:002013-07-30T17:42:35.215-05:00I believe impersonating a cop is a crime in most i...I believe impersonating a cop is a crime in most if not all states. George claimed he was only acting as a "volunteer neighborhood watchman" not a cop. There were no witnesses to corroborate his claims however.Moms Hugshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15393436124226928177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-70037567741268339262013-07-30T17:32:24.988-05:002013-07-30T17:32:24.988-05:00Yale's baby lab studies help explain the human...Yale's baby lab studies help explain the human tendency to prefer others like ourselves, and bias against others that are not like us. 60 Minutes aired a segment about those studies called "Born good? Babies help unlock the origins of morality" last Sunday. The studies show how babies as young as 3 & 5 months old show such preferences and biases. Parents can deepen this bias by example and voicing it, or teach their children otherwise. Here's the link:<br /><br />http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57595806/born-good-babies-help-unlock-the-origins-of-morality/Moms Hugshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15393436124226928177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-88451952945057307912013-07-30T16:54:18.188-05:002013-07-30T16:54:18.188-05:00When I think about this tragedy and what brought i...When I think about this tragedy and what brought it about, I can't help but think of one of the "solutions" proposed in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook shooting. That was the proposal that we increase the armed presence on school campuses by arming teachers and volunteers. <br /><br />The next time it is suggested that to protect our schools, we should have armed amateurs in the classroom, I hope everyone will bring up the name of George Zimmerman. Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13299184906938595579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-27462516293799210102013-07-30T12:02:53.997-05:002013-07-30T12:02:53.997-05:00Damnitall, Warrant
I've read your post six ti...Damnitall, Warrant<br /><br />I've read your post six times in as many days, and I cannot compose a rational response. What you have said is all true, but I am too pissed-off to say much. <br /><br />Maybe later.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-11518457811158367902013-07-30T10:36:54.496-05:002013-07-30T10:36:54.496-05:00Felt it would either be hung jury or aquittal the ...Felt it would either be hung jury or aquittal the moment I heard the panel was 6 people. Not that all cases need 12 but that should be reserved for lesser crimes/charges. Even with 12 there are going to be stupid people on the panel (but on TV... or they have such a gentle smile). First thing you have to accept is any story told by defendant is not the truth - it is a story just as RJ's testimony was a story - but you back it up with facts from other sources to see which rings true. The police started this boondoggle with failing to do any real investigation - and that fact is deplorable...they didn't see any need because it was just another black kid and their shooter was white and older, owned/rented a home - had "standing" and there was no real effort to even ID Trayvon. That's the thing that I just cannot get past. His father reported him missing and still Trayvon was not ID'd for 3 days. Had this been a white kid it would have been on the news with reporters with panic in their voice -- where is he? Have you seen him? This wasn't a huge city. Oh and my take on GZ's story? It wasn't close to believable, it was a fact here or there twisted to reflect positively on GZ or negative against TM but all that is fact is GZ got out of his car, he had his gun and he killed TM. I can come up with a far more believable story that paints this as 1st degree murder - I also believe his gun was held in his hand which terrified TM and that's why he might have fought with GZ - it was fight or die and I think GZ told him that (remember GZ said that TM told him he was going to die - those words were said but by GZ - that's more of his mind-set than a 16-17 year old kid who is unarmed). Marlene Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-9725755768522814412013-07-30T07:30:35.786-05:002013-07-30T07:30:35.786-05:00Anon/Freckles: I also noticed George's shaved ...Anon/Freckles: I also noticed George's shaved head & wondered if it signified identity with Marines/LEOs or white supremacy. I also noticed what appeared to be blood on the front of his jacket. Both led me to opine that GZ landed on his back & his head bounced as a result of a kick-back of the 9mm when fired at short range causing TM to fall on top of him. However, the prosecutors did not bring this out at trial. Perhaps the FBI investigation will.Moms Hugshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15393436124226928177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-66499535275337492772013-07-30T07:12:56.804-05:002013-07-30T07:12:56.804-05:00Denis (July 25): Thank you for the link to "F...Denis (July 25): Thank you for the link to "Fear of a Black President" in The Atlantic by Ta-Nehisi Coats, Senior Editor (8-22-2012). Mr. Coates wrote about racism in the USA, citing academic studies of how racism is reflected in all political circles depending on geographic as well as demographic history. <br /><br />Jim: I am re-posting the link to encourage others to read the article. We cannot understand if we don't even try on their shoes, let alone walk a mile in them.<br /><br />[http://m.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/09/fear-of-a-black-president/309064]Moms Hugshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15393436124226928177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-19334853260325838032013-07-30T07:04:07.009-05:002013-07-30T07:04:07.009-05:00Of two people acquitted by juries, one is a murder...Of two people acquitted by juries, one is a murderer and the other is not. Odd thing, that.<br /><br />BruceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-82523035959402954372013-07-30T03:44:49.639-05:002013-07-30T03:44:49.639-05:00Why wasn't George able to become a cop? Well ...Why wasn't George able to become a cop? Well consider how he behaved on the night. Exactly the opposite of the way any even halfway decent cop would act. Any cop I have ever met would have been able to figure out that the boy was merely walking home after buying candy and soda without any kind of confrontation whatever. Cops aren't out looking for confrontation on dark rainy nights. Seems pretty likely the cops that turned down his applications did so because they knew he hadn't got the right stuff for the job. <br /><br />Why would he go ahead and act out his fantasy of possessing authority? That's an easy one: it made him feel like a big man and there's no law against driving around your own neighborhood checking things out in a way that makes a little man feel big. <br /><br />There OUGHT to be a law that doesn't let little men like him carry deadly weapons when they go out at night to play at being cops, because without the deadly weapon little men like him would never would have had the courage to get out of the car and seek out the kind of confrontation that ended this time in the boy's death. But of course a law like that is too much to ask in a state like Florida. So we can have that particular discussion until we are blue in the face, but unless and until we change the rules about who can carry a gun and under what circumstances, ain't nothin at all gonna change. <br /><br />BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-75131821490461869092013-07-29T20:10:36.586-05:002013-07-29T20:10:36.586-05:00I’m one of those who thinks we need to have an hon...<br /><i>I’m one of those who thinks we need to have an honest conversation about the racial divide in this country and try to work on ways to close the gap -- the operative word here being “honest.”</i><br /><br />Implying, of course, that the rest of us <i>aren't</i> being honest when we discuss race. Interesting. Presumably, Herb, you'll be the one who gets to decide what constitutes "honest" when it comes to discussions of race. Is that right?<br /><br />I'm curious, what objective criteria do you use to make this determination? You going to show the same clear-eyed <i>honest</i> assessment of race that you displayed in your closing paragraph:<br /><br /><i>I believe Sharpton, Jackson, Benjamin Jealous, Marc Morial and the others have dishonored Dr. King.</i><br /><br />Ah, yes, the part where a random (presumed) white guy implies that white people are better at honoring a ideals of a slain black civil rights leader than <i>actual black people</i> - forgetting, of course, that King and those like him were feared and derided just as much as the commenter fears and derides Sharpton, Jackson, et al nowadays. <br /><br />Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-87751464663680878232013-07-29T12:06:24.284-05:002013-07-29T12:06:24.284-05:00As a former 9-1-1 operator, I can say that the phr...As a former 9-1-1 operator, I can say that the phrase "we don't need you to do that" is as close to a direct order as a civilian operator can safely give and still protect themselves from liability. When you tell someone to specifically do something (eg. "don't go into that burning building"), you can then be sued in civil court should anything happen (eg. you don't go into the burning building and get struck by a car standing on the sidewalk out front, watching it burn). The operator was doing their best to guide GZ to make the right choice and instead he chose to do the wrong thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-26551974745076248422013-07-29T03:47:19.799-05:002013-07-29T03:47:19.799-05:00SO good to read a rational, somewhat but not too r...SO good to read a rational, somewhat but not too rambling, opinion about this teenager's death. Thank you, Jim. Now that we got that off our chest, could we talk about how a young man came to hold himself out to be a cop when he wasn't? Can we discuss why he was acting out his fantasy of being a cop & didn't stay in his SUV as he was told to by the dispatcher? Apparently George wasn't able to become a cop. Why not? Frankly, this is the discussion we should be having because there are millions like George living among us in every community in every state. So, when do we begin having that discussion? Moms Hugshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15393436124226928177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-42498581889929707192013-07-28T22:54:27.350-05:002013-07-28T22:54:27.350-05:00"I’m one of those who thinks we need to have ..."I’m one of those who thinks we need to have an honest conversation about the racial divide in this country and try to work on ways to close the gap -- the operative word here being “honest.” But Jackson and Sharpton and their like-minded friends are not going to let that happen. After all, where would they be if the blacks and whites were to all get along?"<br /><br />How "honest" can any conversation with you about racial issues be when you impugn the motivations and intent of both Jackson and Sharpton without providing any proof ? <br /><br />How "honest" is it to hurl the astonishingly insulting accusation that Jackson has "dishonored Dr. King" when he was with King the night he was assassinated ?<br /><br />As for "Same on them. And same on the rest of us ..." <br /><br />It's ironic that you can intuit how honest people are yet can't even spell "shame."Grrrr !noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-38494295266059377122013-07-28T22:46:28.510-05:002013-07-28T22:46:28.510-05:00Ah, Herb, I see you admit that there was NO eviden...Ah, Herb, I see you admit that there was NO evidence on Trayvon's hands of him striking Zimmerman (Trayvon "...only had one small scratch on his finger") The autopsy and ME showed one very small abrasion below the knuckle on Trayvon's left ring finger, NO Zimmerman DNA anywhere on Trayvon's hands or under his fingernails, no bruising of his hands.<br />Zimmerman had a SHAVED head that night--Trayvon would have had to grab him by his ears to "pound his head into the concrete", while simultaneously "covering Zimmerman's bloody mouth and nose with his hands", while simultaneously "reaching for Zimmerman's gun"--no trace of Trayvon on any part of the gun, either. HUMMMM!<br /><br />FrecklesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-16440160243317215042013-07-28T22:29:06.339-05:002013-07-28T22:29:06.339-05:00Freckles, I think you might be forgetting the &quo...Freckles, I think you might be forgetting the "Black People Scare Me Affect," which adds 100lb and at least a foot in height to all black males.Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-11943742671404771912013-07-28T22:25:59.485-05:002013-07-28T22:25:59.485-05:00Anonymous, the picture most often shown of Trayvon...Anonymous, the picture most often shown of Trayvon was taken SIX MONTHS before he was killed.<br />I see you've bought into the "Trayvon was huge" fairy tale. According to the autopsy report Trayvon was 5'11" (only 3" taller than Zimmerman) and weighed 158 lbs. According to the report from the PA Zimmerman went to see the next day (only because he needed the report to go back to work--his tiny scratches didn't even need a bandaid, and the blood in his mustache was from a couple of tiny pinpricks at the end of his nose) Zimmerman weighed 204.<br />Surely you remember that Zimmerman had MMA training and training in police restraint procedures at the Kokopelli Gym three times a week for a couple of years.<br /><br />FrecklesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-66488844193937935922013-07-28T21:08:16.013-05:002013-07-28T21:08:16.013-05:00Actually, I doubt Zimmerman intended to kill anyon...Actually, I doubt Zimmerman intended to kill anyone. That's why I always felt Involuntary Manslaughter was a better fit than Murder. The prosecution in this case was definitely substandard, and we can make all the wild ass guesses we want as to why. Maybe they're just another GTCSS. Hardly uncommon in the minors...<br />And the jury really didn't have much choice under FL law. Like most states, in FL, you can yell self defense, and the DA has to prove it wasn't. Fl, I believe--check me on this, lawtalkers--goes with reasonable doubt as the "quantum of proof" I think is the term, for self defense. This puts a burden on the prosecution that, without reliable witnesses, is just insurmountable. Nobody really knows what happened, all we have is Zimmermen's version, and the result.<br />To me, the only thing you can say about "armed adult stalks teenage boy, boy ends up dead" is "the adult fucked up". Adults fuck up a lot, but when the result is a dead kid, the adult should pay somehow. The law doesn't see things that simply... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-82392791765508561812013-07-28T15:35:59.260-05:002013-07-28T15:35:59.260-05:00First, I commend the jury for having followed the ...First, I commend the jury for having followed the law and the evidence to reach the not guilty verdict instead of defaulting to the politically correct , but not legally correct, manslaughter charge. They remembered what Aristotle said, “Law is reason, free of passion.” <br /><br />Of course, the charge of racism here was inevitable. That seems to always raise its ugly head every time there is white on black crime. (This is also why you don’t see any outrage at the almost daily murders in Chicago since they are almost always black on black. And, by the way, it's almost always black teenagers who are killed. Why are we not worried about their futures, or their missing the prom?)<br /><br />No, what resulted from this case became an opportunity for Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and their ilk not only to set black against white, but to exploit the death of a black teenager. To make their case, they give us the absurd rationale that the White-Hispanic man whose head looked like a punching bag attacked a poor black kid who only had one small scratch on his finger (other than the bullet hole, obviously.) The black community and their sympathizers want to extrapolate this specific and unique case as being responsible for labeling all black teenagers as potential felons. (That’s like labeling all black football players as murderers like O.J. Simpson!)<br /><br />I’m one of those who thinks we need to have an honest conversation about the racial divide in this country and try to work on ways to close the gap -- the operative word here being “honest.” But Jackson and Sharpton and their like-minded friends are not going to let that happen. After all, where would they be if the blacks and whites were to all get along? So they keep things stirred up, keep the tension and distrust going, make sure that victimization of the black community is never forgotten. <br /><br />Finally, I find it ironic that some of the extremist black leaders would use the 50th anniversary of MLK’s “I have a dream” speech to promote civil rights action against Zimmerman. In part of that great speech, Dr. King said, “I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” <br /><br />I believe Sharpton, Jackson, Benjamin Jealous (NAACP), Marc Morial (Urban League) and the others have dishonored Dr. King. They are clearly judging Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman by the color of their skin and not by the content of their character. Same on them. And same on the rest of us for not calling them on it.<br />Herb Van Fleethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01798529192915430337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-58182488156197126832013-07-28T15:34:43.366-05:002013-07-28T15:34:43.366-05:00This isn't just a great place to find interest...This isn't just a great place to find interesting things to read but also a good place to learn from the comments of others. Thank you all.<br /><br />I have merely two points to make:<br /><br /> 1. It is a tragedy when anyone dies unnecessarily.<br /><br /> 2. Mr. Zimmerman had a choice as to whether there would be a confrontation that night. Mr. Martin did not.South Jersey Docnoreply@blogger.com