tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post7046376718215899978..comments2024-03-20T12:34:55.100-05:00Comments on Stonekettle Station: Papers, Please!Jim Wrighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-77856452746117805702010-05-01T22:09:06.464-05:002010-05-01T22:09:06.464-05:00Eric, I've done at least TWO of those (homeopa...Eric, I've done at least TWO of those (homeopathy and the anti-vaxers), and I STILL don't have a "regular" troll the way you and Jim seem to. <br /><br />I get topic-specific drive-by trolls, instead.Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-84016271871760256362010-04-29T13:47:51.077-05:002010-04-29T13:47:51.077-05:00"KGB - give us money and we'll free you f..."KGB - give us money and we'll free you from the burden of having to think about things"<br /><br />Gee, what a deal.Renshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044782669297531020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-79627307893945456842010-04-28T17:05:57.164-05:002010-04-28T17:05:57.164-05:00Jim, I can't look at videos too well over my 5...Jim, I can't look at videos too well over my 56k connection, but I think <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MObidxkR_D8" rel="nofollow">this is the youTube version of it.</a>Steve Buchheithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12999709767641212586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-68556703440904226202010-04-28T10:11:07.805-05:002010-04-28T10:11:07.805-05:00Say, Janiece, I would really love to see what you ...Say, Janiece, I would <i>really</i> love to see what you might have to say about:<br /><br />Homeopathy<br />Anti-Vaccinationists<br />Anthropogenic Global Warming<br />9/11 Truthers<br />Birthers<br />Holocaust denialism<br /><br />(Hehhehhehheh--trollbait, Jim, every single one of those. She'll get a nemesis if she touches any of those for sure....)<br /><br />(Wait, did I type that last part out loud?)Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18275812152895151542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-13253222937938404342010-04-28T09:20:42.937-05:002010-04-28T09:20:42.937-05:00You guys suck.
Quit harshing my empty next mallo...You guys suck. <br /><br />Quit harshing my empty next mallow with your talk of arches, and foils, and trolls. <br /><br />LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-45340877666673485792010-04-27T23:44:33.968-05:002010-04-27T23:44:33.968-05:00I'm hipI'm hipJim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-21933394416722094612010-04-27T23:22:10.137-05:002010-04-27T23:22:10.137-05:00(After that last comment, I suddenly feel like Rus...(After that last comment, I suddenly feel like Rusty Venture talking about The Monarch and The League Of Calamitous Intent. Jim, we really should see about finding someone to arch the Hot Chick, no?)Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18275812152895151542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-65789642548229505812010-04-27T23:19:58.086-05:002010-04-27T23:19:58.086-05:00Jim, Janiece: I'LL GIVE HIM AWAY BUT I AM NOT ...Jim, Janiece: <b>I'LL GIVE HIM AWAY BUT I AM <i>NOT</i> TRADING.</b><br /><br />With that in mind, seems like <i>Janiece</i> is the one who actually has an opening right now, hrm?Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18275812152895151542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-12769799733626961162010-04-27T22:18:45.311-05:002010-04-27T22:18:45.311-05:00Eric's a lawyer, they eat their young. Mean ju...Eric's a lawyer, they eat their young. Mean just rolls right off him.Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-70992275631985372602010-04-27T22:17:08.048-05:002010-04-27T22:17:08.048-05:00To you or to him? I'm quite sure Eric wouldn&#...To you or to him? I'm quite sure <em>Eric</em> wouldn't mind...Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-29373951165551544302010-04-27T21:40:05.856-05:002010-04-27T21:40:05.856-05:00See? Now that's just mean.
;)See? Now that's just mean.<br /><br />;)Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-50042636346176490222010-04-27T21:39:14.421-05:002010-04-27T21:39:14.421-05:00What, Jim? You don't want an echo chamber? Why...What, Jim? You don't want an echo chamber? Whyevernot?<br /><br />You could always invite Eric's BFF to come on over and act as your foil...Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-22519285045982396722010-04-27T21:37:13.281-05:002010-04-27T21:37:13.281-05:00Apparently I don't get that channel up here, S...Apparently I don't get that channel up here, Steve, for I have no idea to what you're referring.Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-33957521485781565102010-04-27T21:12:02.280-05:002010-04-27T21:12:02.280-05:00I'm getting the urge to be that clown at the e...I'm getting the urge to be that clown at the end of the KGB commercial (irony, oh that spiky spike of gleeful smackings as I picture TPers dialing KGB for the meaning "communism"), the one that upsets the drink tray.Steve Buchheithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12999709767641212586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-59512773481229449822010-04-27T20:46:49.048-05:002010-04-27T20:46:49.048-05:00Urf. I've been offline most of the day. Meetin...Urf. I've been offline most of the day. Meetings, followed by meetings followed by phone calls and more meetings. So, I'm just now getting a chance to sit down and look at the day's comment.<br /><br />____________________________<br /><br />Dave. WTF? I'm really, really hoping you were holding tongue firmly in cheek there and it just didn't come across well. Please tell me that was the case. I didn't find Nick's comment to be in any way moronic and taking a shot at somebody's spouse is out of bounds (unless you were joking). <br /><br />_____________________________<br /><br />After having a day to think about this post I see that I need to do a follow up that clarifies my position. I'm not changing my position, and in reality my outlook on this isn't all that far from the general gist of the comments here, but I have done a reevaluation. <br /><br />I thought certain things were obvious in this post, but I see that they weren't. Poor writing on my part. Apologies if I've given you all the wrong impression, or that I'd pulled a Lieberman and switched sides without warning.<br /><br />I will try to have some clarification up later this evening.<br /><br />On the other hand, I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy a real conversation where we actually disagree on something for a change. There are days where I'm afraid this blog is me talking to myself, or worse. ;)Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-16175564025050369212010-04-27T20:24:56.400-05:002010-04-27T20:24:56.400-05:00The problem I see with the new law is the "di...The problem I see with the new law is the "discretion" part of it. Instead of having local law enforcement checking everybody's immigrant status, they only have to do it if they have "reasonable suspicion." That right there leads to profiling problems. But of course the lawmakers didn't want all the "good legal Amuricans" to be bothered by it. Understand, most laws that require "enforcement" by the local constabulary are all enforced on "reasonable suspicion." What has changed with this law is that now citizens can sue departments whom they think aren't doing enough.<br /><br />What will be interesting is how those cases will go. Or if the police departments generate more comprehensive procedure beyond the "arrested for being Brown in a public place" concepts. Maybe once some people who don't think they'll be affected by this law are caught in it's grip because they have "accented English", Canadian plates, driving a BMW, you know, weird stuff, we'll se this law go where it should, the dust bin of history.<br /><br />But I have to agree with Jim's premise of "privilege", that we all live in a society and economy based on cheap labor (illegal and not). Restructuring that economy will be a greater upheaval that what we're experiencing now. And for not biting the bullet, we all share culpability. <br /><br />this law isn't the answer, realistic immigration reform (one that allows "seasonals"), a realistic approach to the "drug war" (one based on ending the problem instead of just criminalizing it), and the ending of the hyperbolic rhetoric will lead us to the answer.Steve Buchheithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12999709767641212586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-49861469697563174102010-04-27T19:20:49.535-05:002010-04-27T19:20:49.535-05:00Nick, why are you even bothering to respond to acc...Nick, why are you even bothering to respond to accusations of idiocity from someone who doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're"?<br /><br />Hardly seems worthwhile. Or challenging enough to be entertaining. But if you're having fun, we're here to cheer you on.Phialahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05604909119508288912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-61583550763341310462010-04-27T19:16:50.990-05:002010-04-27T19:16:50.990-05:00AlaskanDave,
I'm sure you're right. Sorr...AlaskanDave,<br /><br />I'm sure you're right. Sorry about my moronic opinions, and I'm also sorry that my wife wasted all that time and money on some stupid education.<br /><br />As you gloat on my abject apology, consider:<br /><br />"The Land of the Rising Sun is in trouble because it suffers from an insular society that discourages immigration and implicitly encourages low birth rates. For the last 50 Japan has been slowly committing demographic seppuku and now the inevitable is taking place, i.e., Japan’s population is crossed the tipping point so that its work force is both relatively old and shrinking and as a nation Japan can’t sustain its standard of living." <br /><br />Rest of moronic blog post found <a href="http://seekingalpha.com/article/171526-japan-demographic-time-bomb-waiting-to-explode" rel="nofollow">here</a><br /><br />nutfi = some nut with a finance degree, more wasted educationNick from the O.C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-25867008783633845112010-04-27T15:53:03.762-05:002010-04-27T15:53:03.762-05:00Nick.... your a damn moron
Even with all that hi...Nick.... your a damn moron <br /><br />Even with all that high-priced education, your wife ain't smarter that a 5th graderAlaskanDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00477298075023652923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-10540424312518740112010-04-27T14:02:19.626-05:002010-04-27T14:02:19.626-05:00On a lighter note, here's the Canadian view of...On a lighter note, here's the Canadian view of the flood of illegal aliens coming to Canada after Bush IIs reelection:<br /><br /><i>The flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada has intensified in the past week, sparking calls for increased patrols to stop the illegal immigration. The re-election of President Bush is prompting the exodus among left leaning citizens who fear they'll soon be required to hunt, pray and agree with Bill O'Reilly....<br /><br />Canadian border farmers say it's not uncommon to see dozens of sociology professors, animal rights activists and Unitarians crossing their fields at night. "I went out to milk the cows the other day, and there was a Hollywood producer huddled in the barn," said Manitoba farmer Red Greenfield, whose acreage borders North Dakota. The producer was cold, exhausted and hungry. "He asked me if I could spare a latte and some free-range chicken. When I said I didn't have any, he left. Didn't even get a chance to show him my screenplay, eh?"<br /><br />In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher fences, but the liberals scaled them. So he tried installing speakers that blare Rush Limbaugh across the fields. "Not real effective," he said. "The liberals still got through, and Rush annoyed the cows so much they wouldn't give milk."</i><br /><br />That's proably all I can post and keep within fair use guidelines the rest is at <a href="http://entercanada.blogspot.com/2006/12/illegal-aliens-in-canada.html" rel="nofollow">Illegal Aliens in Canada</a><br /><br />liturbot: A robot for people who are too lazy to litter themselves.TimBohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16128235274340905534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-87263926129512531732010-04-27T11:02:27.819-05:002010-04-27T11:02:27.819-05:00I tried to post last night but was having computer...I tried to post last night but was having computer problems.<br /><br />Anyway, Jim, I deeply, strongly -- even vehemently -- disagree with your post. For the first time I think you are simply wrong.<br /><br />First, I disclaim any and all responsibility for the death of the Arizona rancher. Period. And not because of Eric's points (which he's right about, by the way)--but because my actions played no role in his death. And saying that I'm responsible because I purchased a product made by illegal aliens is about as logical as saying I'm responsible because I walked on a lawn that was cut by illegal aliens. Forget it.<br /><br />Secondly, I welcome immigrants and our country is founded on immigation--both legal and illegal. We are still learning about how immigrants scammed the system 100 years ago--but we know they did. From workforce demographics to fertility rates, we need immigrants to secure our future. And the ability of these immigrants to move up in our society is key to our predominance as a moral force in the world (such as it is these days).<br /><br />Finally, let me quote my wife, who's smart of things like this. (Bachelors in International Relations, Minor in Developing Economies, FYI.)<br /><br />"We don't need fences to keep immigrants out. We need welcome centers. We need welcome centers to educate them and to integrate them into our society as quickly as humanly possible."<br /><br />So I find myself on Eric's side on this one. And that frightens me.<br /><br />chenche = to clench one's heinieNick from the O.C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-89922661914755773242010-04-27T08:44:43.444-05:002010-04-27T08:44:43.444-05:00I disagree with yours and Vince's opinion on t...<i>I disagree with yours and Vince's opinion on the drug trade. I've been there guys. I categorically disagree with legalization - I agree with Vince's observation that ending prohibition ended much of the crime associated with illicit booze, but it didn't end alcoholism or drunk driving or alcohol related domestic violence and so on. Legalization of marijuana wouldn't do much, Vince. Weed is a tiny part of the illicit drug trade - it's just not all that profitable. The stuff coming across the southern border is cocaine, heroin, and meth. Legalize that and the cure will be worse than the disease. Facile or not, Eric, illegals come here to for a variety of reasons, but ultimately because they've got something we want and are willing to pay for - we just don't like the side effects. </i><br /><br />Jim, I realize you've been there on the <i>interdiction</i> end of it, and almost mentioned it in my comment. But don't forget that I've been on there too on the other end of it--representing users and dealers who are being prosecuted in state court. And I can say firsthand that criminalization isn't working, either. We're sending a lot of people with what is essentially a psychological disorder with a biological dimension through a revolving door by dealing with them in a system that's designed to punish/neutralize/rehabilitate bad people who do bad things, not to treat drug addicts. While there are substance abuse programs available through probation and the prison system, funding is erratic and the best data seems to suggest that there's no single solution--that a treatment regimen that works for one individual has no guarantee of being effective for anybody else; that even regimens with distressingly high failure rates (including that classic, "going cold turkey") can be extremely, surprisingly effective for some individuals.<br /><br />Furthermore, while there may be dire consequences for legalization (or that grey area limbo: <i>decriminalization</i>), the social consequences of criminalization have gone far beyond the abusers, dealers, and people victimized by abusers and dealers. The fact is that the current drug enforcement environment is one that fosters degradation of Constitutional liberties and actively encourages seedy or outrightly corrupt behaviors by those in law enforcement, with a ripple effect beyond that (the most notorious examples would include drug seizure statutes and <i>in rem</i> proceedings, which give governmental agencies a profit stake in legal proceedings--e.g. does local government want to take down the alleged drug dealer or do they simply like his boat?).<br /><br />To be honest, Jim, I think the drug trade issues are largely being used as a screen by folks in the border states. Recognizing that drug dealers south of the border are using the flow of immigrant workers northward as a cover for mules, and that drug violence is seeping northward, I'm not sure the Arizona law has any component that would actually target drug mules or stem border violence. Immigrants who are roped into doubling as mules or who professionally serve that purpose will almost always have dropped their payloads off or returned south before anyone asks them for their papers while they're just walking or driving down the street. However, I imagine it's nicer if you're an Arizona resident to say to others--and perhaps even tell yourself--that you support the hassling of brown people because they're bringing drugs and murder to America, and not because they're stealing jobs you didn't want or "using up" services like schools and healthcare. I hope it's obvious I'm not accusing you of that, Jim, but I would accuse you of giving the supporters of the law too much credit.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18275812152895151542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-2221606400443652412010-04-27T06:23:18.699-05:002010-04-27T06:23:18.699-05:00The current system is untenable, for all the reaso...The current system is untenable, for all the reasons already outlined. But I'm agreeing with Eric on this one - the AZ law is not the way to go.<br /><br />Enforce the laws we already have. They're not being enforced? The solution to that isn't making more laws.<br /><br />I lived in Las Cruces NM for four years. It's a poor city 40 miles from the El- Paso-Juarez border crossing, and on a major drug corridor. I can picture one major effect if such a law were enacted in New Mexico: the population is majority Hispanic. The police would have to stop everyone all the time. When are they going to fight crime? There are already roadblocks and checkpoints; this would add more, and more intrusive ones. <br /><br />Worse, I see it scaring the legal residents, some of whose families have lived in New Mexico for 500 years, terrifying the innocent ones who are here to work shit jobs for shit wages, and not bothering the drug runners and serious criminals much at all.<br /><br />I don't think I've ever been called a sycophantic minion before. That's kind of funny. Opinionated bitch seems so much more likely.Phialahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05604909119508288912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-40457161767509327442010-04-27T03:54:50.797-05:002010-04-27T03:54:50.797-05:00"Illegal aliens, who by definition are breaki..."Illegal aliens, who by definition are breaking the law," -- not <i>technically</i> true. The crime of entering the U.S. without authority to do so is actually a misdemeanor. And it's complete as soon as the person committing it has a reached a place of temporary safety (i.e., has stopped running). In other words, illegal aliens are NOT breaking the law by just being here. They've broken the law by coming here, but that's in the past. (Now, there may be other violations going on -- faked documents, working when they shouldn't be, etc.) My point, though, is that the crime that illegal aliens have committed is in the same category as shoplifting. And it's over and done.<br /><br />Now, contrast the Arizona law with the LAPD policy. The LAPD's policy toward illegal immigrants can best be described as "Don't ask, don't tell." And the reason for this is a practical one. They want illegals to not be afraid to report crimes or to testify when they've witnessed a crime or been victimized. Because the LAPD believes -- quite rationally, I think -- that it makes a hell of a lot more sense to go after the actual violent felons out there than to catch someone who committed a misdemeanor years ago and is now just trying to eke out a living.<br /><br />Hell, I worked on a case once where a rapist preyed on women who were here illegally -- he pretty much grabbed them off the street when they were waiting at the bus stop (generally on the way to clean somebody's house). And he was able to keep this up for some time, because he'd threaten his victims with "Tell anyone, and you'll get deported." Until finally one of his victims stepped forward and got this asshole off the streets.<br /><br />But the LAPD is constantly doing community outreach to the let the illegal immigrants KNOW that the LAPD doesn't give a damn about how they got here, and that if they come in to report a crime or testify about one, their immigration status won't be questioned. It's a choice that the LAPD made, and I think it's the right one.<br /><br />And that's the first thing I thought of when I heard about the Arizona law. That it's pretty much telling violent criminals that they can freely prey on the illegal community -- because illegal immigrants will be that much more terrified of walking into a police station and reporting a crime.<br /><br />And that kinda makes me sick.nzformehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13982194544873836336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-65804087095985028862010-04-27T00:55:24.608-05:002010-04-27T00:55:24.608-05:00Well, at least the next time somebody calls you al...Well, at least the next time somebody calls you all sycophantic minions I can point to this post as evidence of your rebellion. ;)<br /><br />Couple things: I don't agree with this law at all. As I said, it bothers me - but I think it's important to acknowledge that folks in the border states have some legitimate concerns when it comes to illegal immigrants. Some of their concerns are based on a real threat and not just kneejerk racism or nationalism.<br /><br />Eric, I don't necessarily disagree with what you said about holding illegals - except that it's not working. same same what Vince said about enforcing the existing law. <br /><br />I also acknowledge that you're probably right in your second paragraph, but the tracks led directly to Mexico. I'm making an assumption on scanty data, but it's the way to bet. <br /><br />I disagree with yours and Vince's opinion on the drug trade. I've been there guys. I categorically disagree with legalization - I agree with Vince's observation that ending prohibition ended much of the crime associated with illicit booze, but it didn't end alcoholism or drunk driving or alcohol related domestic violence and so on. Legalization of marijuana wouldn't do much, Vince. Weed is a tiny part of the illicit drug trade - it's just not all that profitable. The stuff coming across the southern border is cocaine, heroin, and meth. Legalize that and the cure will be worse than the disease. Facile or not, Eric, illegals come here to for a variety of reasons, but ultimately because they've got something we want and are willing to pay for - we just don't like the side effects. <br /><br />Again folks, I don't agree with this law - I think it's fundamentally against the spirit of America. But having lived in this area and dealt with some of this issues, including the drug trade, I understand where it came from and I think it is in response to very real concerns and not just the usual bigotry.Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.com