tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post7905345852842693717..comments2024-03-20T12:34:55.100-05:00Comments on Stonekettle Station: Welcome to the 1st Fundamentalist Reformed Church Of RepublicanismJim Wrighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-15668185802608520882009-11-28T12:13:18.880-06:002009-11-28T12:13:18.880-06:00Well Steve, one thing is for certain: regardless o...Well Steve, one thing is for certain: regardless of what we see today, it will not be the same after a few tomorrows. Everything changes, good or bad, better or worse. Whether we like it or not. We just have to tighten abs and get ready for the gut punch, no way out of it.<br /><br />I am pretty certain that by the time my youngest graduates from college in fifteen years he will be voting in a totally different atmosphere than I am, probably even an extra party or two as well.<br /><br />Heck, I'd be surprised if the Soviets weren't back on the scene by then and the focus of our government was right back to where it was under Reagan.<br /><br />In the meantime, I'm just going to be chatting away and trying to figure it all out. Which reminds me...I'm going on the air at Blogtalkradio.com in about an hour (2pm EST) with my new talkshow <a href="http://www.blogtalkradio.com/basil-sands" rel="nofollow">Basil's Weekly News Review</a>. We probably won't talk party politics too much, but it will be fun anyway. And I am doing Jim's Turkey Day at the Palin's skit as a segment. Give a listen if you like that sort'a thing.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152540665352170999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-75951007899530720352009-11-28T11:29:40.903-06:002009-11-28T11:29:40.903-06:00Basil, I'm singing "One of these things i...Basil, I'm singing "One of these things is not like the other." You've made facile logic comparisons. The Democratic party has had Blue Dogs and Yellow Dogs for quite some time now. Republicans have been holding RINO hunts since the mid 90s. At one point the conservative media tried to instill the specter of DINOs, but you can see how far that philosophy went (flew like a lead balloon). <br /><br />I only need to point to the current legislative schedules and votes in the current federal congress and senate to demonstrate the difference in ideological sway between the parties. That one republican crossed the aisle to vote for health care reform (or any democratic sponsored initiative of any substance) he became the subject of nation news stories. However, quite often, Democratic members cross the aisle and vote with the Republicans. <br /><br />So, uh, which party again has been side lined by their fringe?<br /><br />And just as a personal history lesson, I was a registered republican until I saw how Bush Sr. behaved in office. It was then I realized that the social conservatives had hijacked the party. If Nixon were to run now, he wouldn't be accepted by the Republican Party. That some of the current initiatives are labeled "socialist" show just how far to the right the Republican Party has drug our country since Reagan's presidency. Back in the 70s much of these policies would be considered centrist.Steve Buchheithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12999709767641212586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-50280814768492457962009-11-27T20:52:38.358-06:002009-11-27T20:52:38.358-06:00Seriously, even as a draft, this resolution looks ...<i>Seriously, even as a draft, this resolution looks like it was penned by ten year olds – or insane religious fanatics.</i><br /><br />There's a difference?<br /><br />/rimshot<br /><br />On a slightly more serious note, I'm glad this leaked to the public, and I also hope like hell it gets accepted verbatim. It's about time the Republicans purged themselves of these insane 10 year old religious fanatics, once and for all.Alesia Matsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15519487703722156234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-12216567815020363502009-11-27T17:24:45.947-06:002009-11-27T17:24:45.947-06:00You're welcome to be as long winded as you lik...You're welcome to be as long winded as you like. I'm always happy when a post leads to thoughtful and interesting conversation.Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-57079937102010124732009-11-27T16:55:32.214-06:002009-11-27T16:55:32.214-06:00I don't agree with the idea that conservatives...I don't agree with the idea that conservatives are hijacking the Republican party. Anymore than the idea that social liberals have hijacked the Democrats. If a majority of members choose to define the party in a particular fashion that is what party will be seen as.<br /><br />If, on the other hand, social conservatives actually represent only a minority of the party then their definition of the party is based primarily on public perception as created and fed by the media through which the public is informed. It is not only the party that defines itself in public perception, but their opponents who seek to force a definition on them for their own ends.<br /><br />Is it right to assume that all Democrats are social liberals because that is the way they go on the votes, in spite of the fact that social conservatives like Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman had been among their number until recently? Or could it be said that social liberals hijacked the Democrat part and forced out men like Lieberman who wouldn't tow their line.<br /><br />Political parties are fluid creatures based upon the belief systems of the majority of members within their group. The parties accepted beliefs change based on their membership, and the general popularity of their views among the population.<br /><br />The Republican party itself was a grassroots offshoot of the Whig party. They came into being because the Whigs weren't firm enough on slavery. Throughout their history Republicans have been supporters of social conservatism (emancipation, prohibition, entreprenuership). Certain individuals through the history of the party have not held to such views, Coolidge, Nixon and recently Bush II for instance, but as in all of those cases they failed. I believe that failure was due to their lack of maintaining a grasp of the core values of the Republican ideal that had lead voters to put them into office.<br /><br />Anyway, that's a lot to say. This is Jim's blog not mine, so I'll try not to be so long winded.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152540665352170999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-62778189727441472162009-11-27T16:16:31.590-06:002009-11-27T16:16:31.590-06:00Basil, there has been a common platform. What'...Basil, there has been a common platform. What's happening here is the continuing hijacking of the party by the social conservatives that was initiated by Reagan's deal with them. It's now that they feel they're entitled to the party. <br /><br />As to the whole "just set up your own party," it's a red herring. For a party to be successful it needs to grow from the bottom up. First you need to win local elections, then statewide, the national. If people believe the two parties have a lock on national offices through the election laws, they haven't seen anything when it comes to local and statewide control by those parties. And then there's the matter of finances and coordination. The two parties also hold a lock on that as well.<br /><br />This is why those few Representatives and Senators who break with the standard parties choose "Independent" than some other affiliation.Steve Buchheithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12999709767641212586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-72150128373817474012009-11-27T13:22:36.418-06:002009-11-27T13:22:36.418-06:00I tend to believe that if a group exists as a grou...I tend to believe that if a group exists as a group, there has to be a reason for their group existence, ie. common platform. Otherwise what is purpose of being a group. If there is not a base of similar beliefs there is no sense in them being a group, they're just a gaggle of folks who wear the same t-shirt slogans.<br /><br />I believe that both Republicans and Democrats should definitively outline their belief systems and require members to adhere to their by-laws for the sake of the public knowing what they are getting when they vote someone in. <br /><br />If they voted Obama in thinking they were getting an FDR folks may feel duped, likewise if McCain had won because they thought he was a Reagan they certainly would have been duped. <br /><br />So I say go for it politicos. State your goals and perspective clearly. Those who want to be in a group but don't like what those two groups espouse, start your own group. If the public likes your values you will get elected. If not, obscurity remains your bedfellow.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152540665352170999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-86187387655519376302009-11-26T15:38:44.395-06:002009-11-26T15:38:44.395-06:00Jeri, no actually, I like the fact that reps can u...Jeri, no actually, I like the fact that reps can use their judgment and not go lock-step with the majority of people who voted them in if, because they are privy to better information, they decide to change their minds or go with their conscience. Otherwise we'd to everything by plebiscite, and you know how well that worked for Poland - they got beat by the Czar, the Austrians and the <i>French</i> :D<br /><br />Seriously that is the whole point of a representative deomcracy with defined terms - they can do what they want for a while, then we get to decide on their merits.John the Scientisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03467337009577733553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-58503352578797419732009-11-26T13:17:40.354-06:002009-11-26T13:17:40.354-06:00No, Janiece, you're not. I generally think th...No, Janiece, you're not. I generally think the problem with the two-party system is that each party gets in power by sucking up to the middle -- and then, once it is in power, it panders to its base, with the ultimate result that it gets kicked out when the other party seems more reasonable. The Republicans could gain substantial ground in 2010 if they moved more toward the center. Staking out a position on the far right fringe is going to force voters to vote democratic ... or (even more likely) not vote at all.nzformehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13982194544873836336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-61802029365038123522009-11-26T09:26:42.162-06:002009-11-26T09:26:42.162-06:00I may have to think about this a little because my...I may have to think about this a little because my first reaction is "Yay Republicans!" I <em>hope</em> they take a hard line like this and then start tossing out anyone who doesn't line up in lock-step with them. I <em>like</em> that they define themselves, not by what they support, but by what (and who) they oppose.<br /><br />Eventually (hopefully sooner than later), I'm confident this will all result in the Republican Party completely fracturing. And <em>then</em> we might actually get a viable third party. <br /><br />Who knows? Maybe the Dems will follow suit and give us a fourth or even fifth party. <br /><br />Note: I'm really tired of having only two choices in every election (who define themselves solely by their opposition to each other). OTOH, I'd hate to see things <em>so</em> fractured that we start to need coalition governments to get anything done. That doesn't seem to have worked out so well where it's SOP.Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00648438549121320566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-82610655146890174232009-11-26T08:50:12.744-06:002009-11-26T08:50:12.744-06:00Am I the only one who thinks that these nutjubs ar...Am I the only one who thinks that these nutjubs are cutting their own throats with this nonsense?Janiecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190655869710465713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-61513367664729773842009-11-26T06:43:44.021-06:002009-11-26T06:43:44.021-06:00Jeri: I refer you to a comment I made earlier on J...Jeri: I refer you to a comment I made earlier on Jim's most recent post regarding the health care insanity:<br /><br />When this particular bunch of fundie neocons says 'the people' or anything similar they mean 'People who are like us', i.e. straight white upper-class neoconservative fundamentalist christians. Anyone else is misguided at best, or a commie liberal subversive out to destroy everything America stands for at worst... And either way, they don't count.Renshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044782669297531020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-64345568130931476312009-11-26T01:45:37.639-06:002009-11-26T01:45:37.639-06:00Jim - well done. (And too funny - I was actually l...Jim - well done. (And too funny - I was actually looking over on Eric's blog for this one after I left my RSS feed - are you channeling him, or him you?)<br /><br />I have a silly and naive question about life in a representative democracy (i.e. republic). Aren't our elected representatives supposed to support the will of their constituents with their voite, rather than their cult/political party?Jerihttp://smugpuppies.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-1521001545197861272009-11-25T22:12:49.123-06:002009-11-25T22:12:49.123-06:00The only thing I would add, Nick, is a modificatio...The only thing I would add, Nick, is a modification to #4, ...and we fully support the right of a worker to NOT be part of organized labor if he or she so chooses.Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-27699182759747317752009-11-25T22:08:50.077-06:002009-11-25T22:08:50.077-06:00(1) We support smarter government, paying down the...(1) We support smarter government, paying down the national debt,and eliminating the Anti-Deficiency Act in favor of multi-year budgeting based on actual dollars spent, not headcount;<br /><br />(2) We support immediate reforms to Medicare and Medicaid programs, including means-testing and health insurance reform, so that all citizens have an opportunity to be covered by health insurance for catastrophic illness and disease prevention;<br /><br />(3) We support a national energy policy that aims to move the country off its addiction to foreign oil and invests in the technology to do so;<br /><br />(4) We support putting citizens to work and giving them the right to bargain collectively if it is their choice to do so;<br /><br />(5) We support legal immigration and assimilation into American society by funding "welcome centers" and other means of making those people already here productive and taxpaying citizens of this melting pot of a country;<br /><br />(6) We support victory in the war against para-statial entities that want to harm us, preferably by diplomacy or economic sanctions, acting in collaboration with the UN, but ultimately by whatever means the Commander-in-Chief deems necessary, as approved by Congress;<br /><br />(7) We support progress in the containment of the proliferation of nuclear weapons, preferably by diplomacy or economic sanctions, acting in collaboration with the UN;<br /><br />(8) We support the right of adult citizens to enter into marriage contracts, preferably as a couple;<br /><br />(9) We support the right of adult citizens to choose whether or not to have an abortion from a licensed medical doctor, and to choose whether or not to ask for assistance from a licensed medical doctor to their lives; and<br /><br />(10) We support the Bill of Rights as they have heretofore been interpreted by the Supreme Court of the United States; ...<br /><br />FTFYNick from the O.C. - Founder of the Wine and Cheese Partynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-90539074185875233622009-11-25T21:44:47.885-06:002009-11-25T21:44:47.885-06:00You can either use medicine or medicine
I love th...<i>You can either use medicine or medicine</i><br /><br />I love that line, John.Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-54839516074623369532009-11-25T21:27:25.409-06:002009-11-25T21:27:25.409-06:00Look, I'm as pro-free market as it gets while ...Look, I'm as pro-free market as it gets while still staying within the bounds of rationality. You know what I do for a living, and you know I know what I'm talking about when I say that there is no totally "market based" solution for healthcare of the poor.<br /><br />Markets can only work when substitutions can be made and people can do without. When you get sick, you can either use medicine or medicine. There is no alternative.<br /><br />Insurance markets only work when some people wind up not using the insurance - and the premiums from those people make up for those who do need it. This works with auto accidents, it works with fires. But everyone, I mean everyone, gets sick. That's the whole reason that health insurers are so draconian about pre-existing conditions. Their actuaries have the balance of income versus disbursements down to an art, and adding mroe sick people can wreck the balance in short order. The average policy cost, assuming that the current number of really sick individuals stays the same, is around $30K. Most people can't afford that. There has to be some subsidy.<br /><br />That being said, costs are going to rise. I'm in favor of pretty aggressive cost containment. My company reduces my premiums if I engage in certain behaviors that are verified - if I exercise, keep my weight down and don't smoke. I'd like to see that actually become mandatory.<br /><br />Some of these other planks I can agree with, some not. But I have a real problem with the ideological purity aspect. I'm in the party really only to vote in the primaries, as they don't hold to my libertarian principles much anymore (I held my nose and voted for a liberal Democrat in the last Rep race because the GOP incumbent was handing out pork like Hormel and the GOP in the area needed a wakeup call). <br /><br />The GOP is a good example of how when you get a bunch of people in a room who generally agree with one another, it's the fanatics who drive the discussion.John the Scientisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03467337009577733553noreply@blogger.com