Comments on Stonekettle Station: Everybody’s So Different, I Haven’t Changed

I have just discovered your blog today, and cannot...

2012-02-26T09:17:34.931-09:00

I have just discovered your blog today, and cannot stop reading. You articulate in wonderful ways the thoughts I have been trying to explain to others for years. If you ever find yourself "kidnapped by sparkly gay environmentalists and spirited away to their lair beneath an abortion clinic in San Francisco", please send me a note beforehand, because I live in the bay area, and would love to shake your hand.

Sorta de-lurked just to say "right there with...

2012-02-24T14:26:29.255-09:00

Sorta de-lurked just to say "right there with ya, Eric." And Jim, I'm not nearly as brave as you are, in many ways. In addition to struggling with how to articulate my beliefs, I struggle with how to respond in the moment to encountering someone spouting bat-shit crazy. But I'm tired of just walking away. And inasmuch as you are a god(!) in this regard, I plan on coming back here often.

This is possibly the most well thought-out and cle...

2012-02-10T18:07:53.685-09:00

This is possibly the most well thought-out and clear description of the political madness in our country today, and probably my favorite blog post that I've read in the last year. I've cited this numerous times. Really, thank you very much for sharing this, it's absolutely beautiful.
--Sean

Stay in the same place for long enough, and you...

2012-01-25T12:46:39.353-09:00

Stay in the same place for long enough, and you'll be a hero and a villain. Just ask Simon Wiesenthal.

I've been reading your blog for hours (just di...

2012-01-24T18:29:31.738-09:00

I've been reading your blog for hours (just discovered it!) and this post I need to respond to because by reading it I've actually discovered something about myself.

I'm a white Irish decent catholic Canadian and as long as I can remember I've been vehemently anti-racist. But, aside from having read "Black like me" at a young age, I've always wondered why.

I mean, sure it makes sense from an enlightened point of view, but is that it? Am I just somehow smarter, more aware, than the peers I grew up with, not to mention my own family.

But I see now it was the bullying I endured growing up. I learned, through the torment I endured as a child, to hate people who preyed on the weak and defenseless. Weird, I mean it's not like I FORGOT about the bullying, but for some reason I never connected the two things.

So let that be a warning to all bullies! With every blow you create Liberal Champion of Social Justice!

Ok, so apparently we have a number of like minded ...

2012-01-11T04:44:12.963-09:00

Ok, so apparently we have a number of like minded people/readers....so what can we do with that to start making changes to the status quo? Are there any existing groups attempting to organize anything along these lines yet? And if so where?

Thank you. I found you because of the Jon Swift aw...

2011-12-28T10:43:24.176-09:00

Thank you. I found you because of the Jon Swift awards and I'll come back to your site after reading this. I appreciate your explanation of the past thirty years. What a long strange trip, and it's good to have thinkers who can make some sense of it.

I'm currently reading "My Life" (Bil...

2011-12-23T09:02:35.231-09:00

I'm currently reading "My Life" (Bill Clinton's autobiography) and Clinton talks a lot about this phenomenon in it. He kinda literarily (I think I just made up that word-meaning in a literary way)scratches his head about it, too. He comes off as a little bitter toward Conservatives of today (and of the 90s) but I figure he has some pretty legitimate reasons.
Personally, I was just considering something similar. I've had people guess a few times lately that I'm a Republican. I'm pretty Pinko-Commie-Socialist-Hippie-Liberal. I buy organic, use a clothesline, used cloth diapers for a while, make my own deodorant, dye my hair with all natural plant dye (henna), etc. And I've done some stuff that would probably make some of my friends and family have to pick their jaw off the floor. But on a daily basis, I appear pretty conservative-as in, I appear not like a socialist and I have a normal haircut and wear modest clothing. I think maybe some of the locals (I'm in Texas...which may explain a lot)have conservative as in right-wing and conservative as in cautious, moderate in general. I'm not extreme for the most part in the outward life people see (for example, most people don't know I make my own deodorant) so I am conservative in the non-political sense. And people have a hard time understanding then how I am liberal in my politics. *sigh*

Eight years your senior, and about three years ago...

2011-12-22T02:37:07.237-09:00

Eight years your senior, and about three years ago I decided the changes you describe with such precision had grown beyond my tolerance. Thirteen months ago I moved to the country that had the burning bodies and the body counts. I live in Vietnam.

And I see a few survivors of "bear any burden, pay any price," on crutches, wheeling around on hand-powered conveyance, a leg gone, or both legs gone, and think "my country dd that." The difference is that nobody is going to assault me in a parking garage, because people here aren't Conservative.

I'm not going back.

I have had the same sort of experience that you...

2011-12-21T07:17:16.132-09:00

I have had the same sort of experience that you've evidently have encountered as well. As I was growing up, I watched my political party move slowly and inexorably away from the policies and viewpoints that I had developed while growing up. It's something that is frustrating, you desperately want to do something but you don't know what exactly you can do. Your party is no longer the same, the people in charge want to deny you your right to speak or to even be a party member, simply because you have the audacity to question the current party orthodoxy.

The true frustration is when you try to point out how much things have changed, and how the path the party has taken leads to a dead end only gets you plastered with those labels you mentioned, and worse. It has gotten so bad in areas of the country that you'd think that being called a communist is actually a compliment, considering how much the party has seemingly adopted communistic thought and behavior. Any hint of independent thought gets you exiled to Siberia, or here in the US to New Jersey.

And yet I still feel a loyalty to the party, as completely irrational a thought that might be. Perhaps it's the old concept of doing your civic duty, no matter how distasteful it might be in pointing out the failings and fallacies in the current party groupthink, or that bit of anarchism that likes to spite the powers that be simply because it's our right to. Eventually the party has to swing back to where it started from, at which time people like us will be accepted once again instead of treated like unpersons.

And finally, I think that you're gravely mi...

2011-12-20T19:24:23.454-09:00
And finally, I think that you're gravely mistaken if you think that you and your beer buddies are going to hold off the US Army if they really, really want you.

US Army crap, any well-trained SWAT team is well experienced, thanks to the War On (Some) Drugs, in taking down heavily armed goons *way* more dangerous in a fundamental way than the morons who talk about "overthrowing a tyrannical government" with their personal arms. Talkin' bout, SWAT teams regularly take down made men, heavily armed murderers, people who've had guns pointed at them before and who have used guns to kill people before, and usually the perp doesn't even get his hands on a gun before he has six black M-16 barrels pointed at his face. 3AM, flashbangs, surprise, surprise, surprise...

It's basic FM-3 sections 4-32 to 4-39, itself a summary of Clauswitz and Sun Tzu, the cops have the advantage of concentration, surprise, unity of command, intelligence, and mobility. The cops know where the person they're taking down is going to be -- that dude's gonna be at home, sleeping, duh. That person, on the other hand, has no idea that the cops have chosen that night to take him out. The outcome is never in doubt.

And this is what the legends in their own mind think they're going to take on with their lack of unity, lack of command and control, lack of training, lack of skill, lack of having done that most basic of things, training to kill people? Dude. No contest. Just sayin'. No army required, any big city police department can take out these legends in their own mind without even breathing hard.

Like you say, guns ain't magic. No number of guns are going to overcome those handicaps I listed above. No way, no how.

Something I didn't follow up on in the text: I...

2011-12-20T17:24:08.454-09:00
Something I didn't follow up on in the text: I'm a gun owner myself. I own both long guns and handguns. More, I've been a professional weapons instructor for more than 20 years. I'm a graduate of numerous handgun, armorer, and weapons schools, both in and out of the military. And I have extensive experience with small arms, in combat, on the range, and in the field. I have a CCP and an FFL (though I probably won't renew the FFL this year).

I have no issue with gun ownership per se. HOWEVER, I believe that with rights comes responsibilities - and the obligations of responsible gun ownership and usage are manifold. I don't believe any idiot should be allowed to own a gun. I believe that you should have to have training before purchasing a gun, and be able to prove it. I believe that the penalties for irresponsible gun ownership should be severe and immediate and without parole. I think background checks and waiting periods should be mandatory. And I think, from personal experience, that the frothy lunatics who patrol gun shows are the very people who shouldn't be allowed to own so much as a slingshot. And finally, I think that you're gravely mistaken if you think that you and your beer buddies are going to hold off the US Army if they really, really want you.

I think Americans are by and large bang bang crazy when it comes to guns. A gun is a tool, nothing more.

For the most part I can agree with the authors pro...

2011-12-20T16:11:38.595-09:00
For the most part I can agree with the authors prose. But then I am also a Libertarian and will continue to cling to my guns... but no god for me, guess I am too logical for that nonsense.

While I understand the desire for a truly egalitarian society, the reality is it's not going to happen for a very, very long time. So I will continue to own my firearms so I can defend my rights and the rights of others as well as my family.

You're correct, war is a necessary evil that should only be entered when all else fails. The problem is the military industrial complex (the one we were warned about by Eisenhower) is now driving our nation into conflicts. The problem is we the people are complacent and apathy is eating away at the foundations of the Republic.

In my own random way of posting... I agree with you on human rights and the labels people apply. As a young man growing up I was the defender of the weak, the one that would step up to the bullies and fight back. And I took that a step further and I too joined the Navy. Only to find that I was no longer defending the weak but supporting the bully.

Keep up your posts and may Fair Winds and Following Seas be your days ahead.

This is not the first post of yours that I have re...

2011-12-20T08:06:33.592-09:00
This is not the first post of yours that I have read, nor will it be the last. I just wanted to say thank you for having chosen to be, and remaining, a public servant. Your years in the military were one kind of service I have always respected. But your current brand of service really shines for me. My dad was a journalist, and he always believed that it was an important valuable form of public service. Would that that were still true. Yours is the new brand of public-service journalism. Thank you.

Zola 11:51 I got this far before finding someone...

2011-12-18T08:45:41.484-09:00
Zola 11:51

I got this far before finding someone noting the Fear problem and how it relates to contemporary crazed conservatives.

What I've seen constantly in the online posts to blogs, newspapers, etc is a prevailing sense of loss of power. Fear of falling. Which makes perfect sense, looking at the figures now available about the economic stagnation of our middle class and the incomprehensible wealth of the 1%. When you're confused, ignorant, and sensible of loss, who do you ally yourself with? Those who seem masterful and in power [not those wimpy liberal college hippies, nossiree]. And if those you've psychologically, if not realistically, aligned yourself with are threatened with loss of power [omigod! a black Democrat President!], you piss yourself in fear.

Corey Robin's The Reactionary Mind explores this - how conservatism is NOT about a stolid traditionalist mindset [all those middle class engineers], but a reaction to the loss of power. This is a novel concept to most of us, I suspect, but it gives insight into Republican attitudes breath-taking in their irrationality and hate.

I was a small 'c' conservative in my youth...

2011-12-16T11:44:36.311-09:00
I was a small 'c' conservative in my youth (I'm the same age you are), but in terms of party alignment - I switched to the Democratic Party in 1980 when some of the names I recalled from Watergate started appearing around Reagan's campaign. I felt these people needed to be purged from the Republican Party, and decided to punish the party by voting against them. I thought this would only need to be a temporary position - these miscreants would be discharged, and I could go back to supporting the party I felt was mine. Sadly, that turned out to just be the beginning of the drift as I watched "Conservatism" drift further and further away from me, finally dipping below the horizon completely in 1995 when Gingrich became speaker.

Jim, while you get the ball rolling, I also enjoy...

2011-12-16T08:01:14.414-09:00
Jim, while you get the ball rolling, I also enjoy the comments posted in response to your thought provoking comments. After reading the comments, I realize that I am not alone - which is quite a relief!!

I find it interesting that those who promote smaller government also seem very intent on government intrusion into my physical body as well as control over privacy in my home, what I read or watch or even think.

The key for promoters of small government is NO government control over companies/businesses. Like companies will self regulate and not harm people. In my 50+ years, I do not remember a single company that acted for the good of its customers when a product was shown to be defective or harmful. Not one, but I do remember Ford deciding that it would be cheaper to pay off wrongful death cases rather than do a recall to install a $10 piece of equipment in its cars to prevent people from burning to death. Since then it has been company after company -

I was subject to the same migration from Republica...

2011-12-15T10:57:42.069-09:00
I was subject to the same migration from Republican to liberal by the labels changing their meanings, but at the same time I changed some of my own values, too.

I became less of an unintentional racist, and also pulled myself into the humanist faction. My racism wasn't much directed at blacks, because I didn't have much experience with them at an early age. I grew up in El Paso, and it was the Mexicans who were the targets of discrimination. My experience in college (very little), the Army, and life since, has shown me that people come in all shapes, sizes, and colors, and while shape, size, or color can influence who you are, they don't keep you from being human. That is a lesson I still have to re-learn constantly. That I occasionally forget that lesson is my shame. That I can re-learn it is my credit.

And I used to regard welfare as a way to perpetuate poverty. A way to keep people second-class, and hinder them from joining society. But poverty sucks the life from people. It's hard to concentrate in school when you're starving. Jobs are hard to get or keep when you can't afford bathing, or clean clothes. When children grow up not knowing the world without poverty, there's less chance they can escape. There is a certain minimum level of civilization needed to allow people to be able to provide for themselves and their children, and I see it as society's job to provide that minimum. That's the humanist position I referred to. It's true that there may be people who will try to take advantage of such a welfare program, but providing for those who need it is so much more important than keeping "undeserving" people from utilizing such a program. And I'm not much of a fan of the "undeserving" label, because, I mean, we're all people. Are we "undeserving", any of us?

I've also moved a bit away from the "small government" idea. I want a bit of government intrusion in my life. I want the government to intrude in my life by regulating the people who sell me food, to keep them from taking shortcuts which could kill me or my family. I want government intrusion to make sure drug companies have to test their drugs before they put them on the market. I want government intrusion in my life to make sure our National Parks are kept in trust for future generations, instead of being bought up by billionaires who will close them off from public use. I want government intrusion to make sure my life savings are protected if my bank goes under. There are a lot of ways I see "government intrusion" as a good thing.

So, did I move more than the labels did, or is it all part of the same game?

I went back and reviewed your graph and it was an ...

2011-12-14T17:10:37.408-09:00
I went back and reviewed your graph and it was an interesting trip when I added me to the equation.
Nixon-----I'm a Democrat
Johnson---I'm a Democrat
Kennedy---to young to vote, but active Navy and Democrat.
No "left wing" "right wing" crap.
There were liberal republicans and conservative democrats. Leftist were radicals and rightwingers were Birchers.
No elected official was even close to being a communist; we all hated or feared communist; except the members of the American Communist Party and all of us were secretly proud that our country allowed such a thing.
I have a relative who is a member of the TeaParty. He asked me what happened to me?
"You're a conservative and you voted to put a F------ Ni----- in the White House."
I haven't changed and he ansered his own question.
He just doesn't know it.

Jim, should you happen to see the douche nozzle dr...

2011-12-14T12:28:57.806-09:00
Jim, should you happen to see the douche nozzle driving that car in the picture again, you should ask him what his convictions were for.

I guess I'm not imagining a different time, wh...

2011-12-14T07:49:43.183-09:00
I guess I'm not imagining a different time, when Democrats and Republicans were the same people with opposing views, both human, both caring. I attribute the current situation to an increasingly sinister and greedy elite, needing more than ever to use hot button issues to keep us in a oppositional frame of mind. The more we are at each other the less time and energy we have to examine what who is really wielding the power, and what they are really up to. The change you describe is real, but I fear more orchestrated than casual in occurrence. The increased influence of religion on the political scene appears to be a major factor, and at the very least a pawn in power broker's games. Nothing divides like religion.

I guess I'm not imagining a different time, wh...

2011-12-14T07:46:54.885-09:00
I guess I'm not imagining a different time, when Democrats and Republicans were the same people with opposing views, both human, both caring. I attribute the current situation to an increasingly sinister and greedy elite, needing more than ever to use hot button issues to keep us in a oppositional frame of mind. The more we are at each other the less time and energy we have to examine what who is really wielding the power, and what they are really up to. The change you describe is real, but I fear more orchestrated than casual in occurrence. The increased influence of religion on the political scene appears to be a major factor, and at the very least a pawn in power broker's games. Nothing divides like religion.

I'm about 10 years younger than you and I actu...

2011-12-14T06:52:31.901-09:00
I'm about 10 years younger than you and I actually did change my viewpoint when going from being a Republican supporter through high school to leaning Democratic once I hit college.

I grew up strongly Catholic - to the extent of going to Catholic schools through the end of high school. I was heavily influenced by the social justice aspect of the faith - feed the hungry, heal the sick, clothe the naked, welcome the stranger and ask nothing in return.

I left the church when I was in college, but I kept that belief and expanded upon it. I used to donate pennies to make sure that starving kids in Africa have food to eat and can go to a one room schoolhouse for a couple of hours a week, but it was now that I realized that there were millions of Americans who need help too. They may not be starving in the streets, but they are going to bed hungry. They may have a school to go to, but if all it is doing is warehousing them for 6 hours a day, it is not preparing them for a life that is any better than what they have now. Working hard at a job is important, but driving yourself to exhaustion on a daily basis just to be able to afford to keep the heat on is more than we should ask of anyone. I started to lean Democratic, because they were at least paying lip service to concept that we as a county could do more about this.

Ironically, the values that my mom worked so hard to instill in me were the cause of the last great fight we had - the one that created the split between us that we were never able to heal before she died. I have the very clear memory of standing in her kitchen while she yelled at me that my beliefs were "just a phase" and that voting Democratic was "evil" because "Democrats kill babies". And things went downhill from there.

Oh fuck. I was concerned that when she died, I did not cry - not then, not at the funeral, not afterwards. Apparently, I never came across the right trigger before today. I'll write more later.

As much I'd like to chant ONE. OF. US... bein...

2011-12-14T04:43:29.997-09:00
As much I'd like to chant ONE. OF. US... being the same place you were before is a good spot, and gives the "left" a solid and enriched perspective.

Somewhere there is a much more eloquent Buddhist quote about enlightenment that suffering brings which I am too lazy to look up... while I'm sorry for your hardship with the bullying,I am grateful it led you to your experiences and brought this writing to us.

No, it was your fault. The religious whackos...

2011-12-14T01:35:55.137-09:00
No, it was your fault. The religious whackos are there because the candidates you liked meshed perfectly with them.

And there you have it folks, sooner or later, it's all my fault.

I'm kinda confused as to how Nixon can be your fault, if you didn't even become of voting age until after he AND HIS SUCCESSOR were out of office.

I mean, Nixon resigned on my first birthday. I'm pretty sure Nixon isn't MY fault...

*scratches head*