Comments on Stonekettle Station: SOPA, PIPA, Good Intentions And The Road To Hell

David Lowery (from Camper Van Beethoven and Cracke...

2012-01-24T13:00:21.796-09:00

David Lowery (from Camper Van Beethoven and Cracker) has been posting a lot of things on his Facebook page about various aspects of piracy from an artist's point of view. And holy hell, it's been kind of amusing to watch the pretzel-shapes people are twisting themselves into so that they can justify, to the artist himself, why they took his music for free.

SOPA/PIPA are not the answer, obviously. There may not be an answer at this point, because the problem is so pervasive...and people feel so very entitled.

I don't know what the answer is. But I feel like there should be a more collaborative process in trying to find one - and that it probably shouldn't involve Senators or Representatives who have big business whispering in their ears.

Thank you for this. You funny intelligent man you....

2012-01-24T05:17:05.463-09:00

Thank you for this. You funny intelligent man you.

Hey, the last time I actually put some money into ...

2012-01-23T10:24:57.810-09:00

Hey, the last time I actually put some money into buying music (I'm broke, in school, and not currently getting music, movies or anything else either legally or pirated. Let me pass grad school, and then we'll see about whats at the theater etc) ANY way - the last serious chunk of money I put into media was buying a musician's CD's, straight from him and his website. No middle man, no big chain store. Finding his website, and buying straight from him got him the maximum money for his art. And can't you just see the big companies accidentally-on-purpose using something like SOPA to shut down individual artists sales because they - the company - aren't getting profit from those of us who buy from the artist?

I think you are on the right track here Virtualchi...

2012-01-23T04:36:05.579-09:00

I think you are on the right track here Virtualchiorboy. Although I would say that even releasing the movie the week of the premier is enough. Speaking of cost, have you gone out to the movies lately? The reason I usually don't go unless it's a big screen blockbuster is the price has crossed my "suck" quotient. You know where I feel ripped off if the movie sucks and I don't want to take that chance. There are also DVD movies. The ones you won't pay the theater price for but would rent it through some service.

So yes, what you speak of are the business models. The industry needs to stop all the law crap and take advantage of the channels now available. Perhaps rip a page from the entire "black friday" fiction: you have cinema debut night, then you have "cyber monday" for the electronic channels, then you have "DVD wednesday" for the sales in stores all quickly following. No need to pirate there.

And yes, there will always be the people that won't pay. They are a small, small, minority. Just like music now. So ignore them they're the heroin addicts of the industry. Or the cockroaches if you like that better. They'll always be with us.

@Skyman123: I think you're on the right track ...

2012-01-22T07:49:34.957-09:00

@Skyman123: I think you're on the right track with the business model being off. Almost sounds like you read TechDirt... lol. As for the "not cheap enough", I think it clouds the issue because so far, a lot of people seem to be assuming every customer is the same. To me, there are at least 5 different major kinds and all have different needs:

1) The "true fan": This is the consumer that wholeheartedly enjoys the content and has no problem forking over whatever money is asked so that they can enjoy it. They do not make up a large percentage of the fan base, but can be a significant portion of the revenue base. Hollywood seems to be assuming that everyone falls into this category.

2) The "fan": Different from the True Fan in that they have limits on what they will spend. Some people in this category will "download" to get a preview before buying because they want to make sure they're spending limited funds in the best possible way.

3) The "curious fan": Interested in seeing the content because their friends are all talking about it. Willing to rent it for a night so they can join in the conversation, but really not all that interested. Some will "download" the content if it's not readily available, such as with the 28 (soon to be 56) day Netflix delay on new movies. Others will just give up and accept that the media companies don't really want their money.

4) The "uninterested": Will occasionally watch with friends or if it happens to be on broadcast TV and there's nothing better on. Really could care less. Not likely to "download" either because they just couldn't be bothered.

5) The "pirate": Refuses to pay for content and never will. There are a variety of reasons, none of which actually justify the behavior - poor, anti-establishment, even "just because". They will never be a paying customer and trying to force them is a lost cause because they will actively work to find ways around restrictions.

Now, here is the most important part. Just because you might be a True Fan of one movie or song or book or painting or whatever, doesn't mean you won't be completely uninterested in the next - even if it's the exact same genre or type. People change. Tastes change. The media companies need to stop treating us as if we are all the same.

To go back to your idea a bit, how much extra money do you think a studio could make if they release a movie in ALL formats at the same time. In other words, on opening night, the people that enjoy the theater experience go to the theater. Those with kids who couldn't afford a baby sitter that night could rent it on demand. Those who already knew they wanted to own it could go buy the DVD. Heck, put a copy of the DVD in the theater snack shop so you can pick up a copy on your way back home. Opening night revenue would be immense and I bet, but taking advantage of the early buzz, sales (# of units) would actually be higher.

@virtualchoirboy I think you miss the point. Enter...

2012-01-22T06:42:00.495-09:00

@virtualchoirboy I think you miss the point. Entertainment that people want to listen to/watch, in the majority, is extremely expensive to produce. Period. Now I'm down with all sorts of cheap indie stuff, but, honestly, would rather see something like Avatar or the LOTR flicks. And you're telling me that buying this stuff legally isn't cheap enough? Really?

The actual point is the distribution system and business model is flawed. It required complete control of the distribution channels and now that's out the window forever with the internet. So what these people are trying to do is roll the clock back and make believe that they can still control the channels if they just can *write a law*. You know, the old-fashioned ham-fisted way it is done everywhere when something happens and we think a law will stop it. It doesn't. Statistically the probability of getting caught is minute, hence Jim's point about the drug "wars". It's so vast you can't control it, and then there's a the problem of *demand*.

You know, *demand* is the reason for drugs and the reason for illegal copies. You can't make something go away until you address the demand problem. So for the content providers the question should be "given the internet, how do we modify our channels to meet this demand and make money". It may be LESS money, but the sums would still be vast. But they're just trying to get laws passed. But they are not approaching this correctly. I'd gladly buy a legal copy of something I can use as I want the week the movie comes out instead of, like my 70 year old mom the felon, buying it from the local Asian corner store's back room the week it comes out. Or downloading it from a foreign site as tech savvy people like me do. They're protecting the theaters here, instead of trying to say "it looks better on the big screen" which, of course, most movies do...unless they're just mass-produced chick flicks (sorry people who like them!).

So they should stop wasting the time and energy in laws and start realizing that the money train, as they knew it, is over. Perhaps the new one isn't as opulent but that doesn't mean money can't be made here.

Kind of cheesy, and the subtitles keep you speed-r...

2012-01-20T18:21:07.731-09:00

Kind of cheesy, and the subtitles keep you speed-reading in order to keep up, but this video outlines some of the most cogent arguments against SOPA that I've seen yet (aside from your most-excellent blog post of course, SLotU :)). Funniest line from the whole thing is when one woman turns to another, about 3/4 through and says, "Don't cry. Disney owns the rights to that emotion."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke9w_iTP7zw

@Warner: I hate to quibble, but your closing state...

2012-01-20T18:16:43.407-09:00

@Warner: I hate to quibble, but your closing statement requires that I speak up:

"It is a real problem, tv much less movies is hideously expensive to produce, the talent and the people behind the cameras, who have the experience to do well, want to be paid well. This is not something you do well in a barn."

First up is "hideously expensive to produce". This is a moral argument and really shouldn't be part of the discussion. We understand that sometimes it costs a lot to make a movie or show. Unfortunately, we also know that sometimes it does NOT. Take a look at "Paranormal Activity". Made on a shoestring budget and yet, it's made millions. We also look at stories like how the original Star Wars has earned billions and yet the actor who was in the costume of Darth Vader has never received a single penny in royalties. Any attempt to bring cost and money into the discussion merely serves as a reminder that it's really the studios that earn the money, not the artists.

Next is "the talent and the people behind the cameras, who have the experience to do well, want to be paid well". Please. We ALL want to be paid well for good work. In the end, the larger the company you work for, the smaller the chance that will actually happen. And if your company is publicly traded, forget about it. You'll get whatever they think they can get away with - movie studios included. Even if everyone was going to the theaters every night and buying DVDs when they hit the stores and renting OnDemand movies, the talent behind the cameras (and even quite a few in front) will still get stiffed by the companies in favor of the shareholders.

Finally, "This is not something you do well in a barn". Well isn't that a nice little strawman. A piece of entertainment is only as compelling as the story. You can spend $175 million making a movie with special effects, explosions and A-list actors and it can still turn out to be a flop (Waterworld anyone?). You can spend $15,000 and film a movie with one camcorder in one house and have it be a smash hit bringing in over $100 million (Paranormal Activity). It's the story that sells, not the budget.

In the end, until "Hollywood" and "the music industry" learn that we just want to be entertained with a good story/song at a REASONABLE price at a time and place of our choosing, there will continue to be problems. Unfortunately, their desire for total control over ALL aspects of distribution and viewing/listening tend to make this difficult at best.

excellent prose, and, I could write a book on on-l...

2012-01-20T15:05:18.955-09:00

excellent prose, and, I could write a book on on-line gambling and controls on internet funds... if you want the vice, impossible to stop... cheers, and thanks again for your prose !!!

Another good one Cee-whoa, The war on drugs is a...

2012-01-20T12:40:13.020-09:00

Another good one Cee-whoa,
The war on drugs is a perfect analogy, a shit ton of cash getting pissed away on can't win policy.
I was posted to Ft. Sherman, and was involved in W.O.D. ( war on drugs, but we called it" waste of dollars").
Panama being the only docile, friendly country astride the only land route from the places coke is made to the USA, they assumed what a good place to stop trafficers. Total fail. We caught 5 tons, but that's a drop in the bucket.
If Americans knew how much loot DEA spent just moving us groundpounders around that godawful place, they'd have the 3letter boys washing dishes till they paid off every million.
It'll be no different with Sopa/pipa, hopfully it won't pass, but if it does we need to tell congress to buy some rubber gloves, and soap, the cash we've flushed on W.O.D. will look like chump change compared to the loss of e- commerce.

Dan, may I quote your proposed solution? (verify:...

2012-01-20T12:37:17.360-09:00

Dan, may I quote your proposed solution?

(verify: protypet: the early versions of AIBO)

As Roxanne said, thanks for making this clearer fo...

2012-01-20T12:28:47.981-09:00

As Roxanne said, thanks for making this clearer for me, another old lady who loves your take on things.

JaneE

I linked to this on Facebook. If you don't sto...

2012-01-20T12:28:15.903-09:00

I linked to this on Facebook. If you don't stop making so much sense, you'll get a reputation for being smart. Oh, wait.... Fantastic post. Thank you.

My first reaction when American friends started to...

2012-01-20T11:59:40.324-09:00

My first reaction when American friends started to talk about this was to think that the big companies would just take their servers/headquarters to other countries where they could do whatever they please.
Most people told me I was being ridiculous.

Makes me kind of glad to be as ridiculous as Stonekettle Station, means I'm probably much smarter than I ever thought I was ;).

I don't live anywhere near Iran or North Korea, but our Internet is already being monitored (thankfully not anywhere close to what is happening in these countries). We have a number of Youtube vids "not allowed in your country" (getting more and more of those in fact), our downloading informations "should" be monitored by our providers who "should" then report to the authorities if they think we're downloading illegally... All it did was that people went from downloading stuff to watching the same stuff in streaming feeds. Like you said, one way or another, people are going to get what they want (*watching* a stream isn't yet being regulated... mostly because I don't think the people voting laws around here know what it is, they are still trying to understand downloading.)

Great post.

I knew a guy who set up satellite boxes and dishes...

2012-01-20T10:59:58.988-09:00

I knew a guy who set up satellite boxes and dishes for folks.
They watch everything! From everywhere, free!
Where did he get the gear? Google!
How will we get around SOPA/PIPA?
Google.

The irony of all this, when you say 'write you...

2012-01-20T10:38:42.242-09:00

The irony of all this, when you say 'write your senators/congressman' you really mean via snail mail. I would like to state that it is because these bozos aren't savvy enough (though I believe that is part of the reason), but they know that anybody can click a button. Actually writing a letter takes some effort...

Thanks so much for this indepth analysis. I haven&...

2012-01-20T09:56:15.793-09:00

Thanks so much for this indepth analysis. I haven't read the actual text of the bills and most site just have a vague handwaving about how they will destroy the internet but didn't go into any details.

I see these bills as a deliberate attempt to make it easy for the copyright holder and harder for those accused. A simple text search results in thousands of DMCA notices because the words match, not because there is actual infringement - and although you "could" sue, in practice nobody can afford to. SOPA/PIPA continue this approach.

A useful analogy for explaining DNS to the non-tec...

2012-01-20T09:36:33.458-09:00

A useful analogy for explaining DNS to the non-technical minding is to describe it as the telephone book of the internet.

Blocking DNS for a site is no more effective then removing someone's name from the phone book. You can still reach them, you just have to use some other means to find their phone number.

Thanks for the technical explanation and the reali...

2012-01-20T07:37:42.812-09:00

Thanks for the technical explanation and the reality check on those people who have no technical understanding passing laws on those who do. And you are correct, authorities can do this already and just did it day after SOPA protest by shutting down megaupload and criminalizing them. I would like to hear your take on Obama's signature for indefinite detention. Also, here's a link to where SOPA is now - 'shelved' - at least until they can line the pockets of any congressional fenceriders who are only happy their kids aren't screaming incessantly about not being able to access their favorite media site.

In the interest of full disclosure, my retirement ...

2012-01-20T07:20:02.992-09:00

In the interest of full disclosure, my retirement check is paid by Disney. I have also represented MPAA (technically MPA) internationally on the subject of Copy Protection. For years I reported monthly to CPTWG (Copy Protection Technical Working Group) on activities of the Consumer Electronics Association in the area of Copy Protection. I was also first chair of the ATSC committee that produced A/70 http://atsc.org/cms/index.php/standards/published-standards/55-atsc-a70-standard (Conditional Access).

In the 90s and early 2000s we, members of MPA and DVB, developed what we thought was a workable copy protection schema, obviously never implemented. I don't know why. It did cost a few pennies per legal copy, and we aimed at one legal copy per user. Actually developing a scenario about a user, a spouse, children, a vacation home and a girl-friend's apartment. All on one download (or DVD).

Obviously it didn't happen, and since I've been out of this since about 02, I don't know why. Greed on the part of two specific studios would be my guess. It certainly had the support of the lawyers and engineers (an MPAA committee) that I reported to as well as the Disney lawyer I was partnered with.

SOPA certainly doesn't seem like the work of the single General Counsel I knew of the MPAA members. He is bright enough to check with somebody who would know this wouldn't work.

There is also the minor problem that one of the biggest pirates is the armed forces of a specific nation state.

It is a real problem, tv much less movies is hideously expensive to produce, the talent and the people behind the cameras, who have the experience to do well, want to be paid well. This is not something you do well in a barn.

Thanks for explaining this in a way that a rather ...

2012-01-20T07:19:03.822-09:00

Thanks for explaining this in a way that a rather dim old lady can understand.

Excellent analysis of the many weaknesses in a poo...

2012-01-20T06:20:28.686-09:00

Excellent analysis of the many weaknesses in a poorly written law. You are quite correct, that this is the typical governmental bass-ackwards approach. So I have a Modest Proposal that I believe will put a serious dent in this dreadful problem of unfettered communication. Since the problem, Piracy, is an old one, I propose a return to an old solution: Privateers. Let the government issue Letters of Marque to the pimply faced assholes who are constantly hacking legitimate sites, and pay them to use their talents on the off-shore pirates that our legal system can't touch. Or better yet, from the Repugnantan point of view, privatize the process and let the studios hire these geeks. Sort of a twenty-first century version of the East India Trading Company. There would be several benefits. First, it would inconvenience the pirates. Second, it would be paid for by those who benefit, the studios. Third, it would give the little bastards something to do with their time other than fornicate with my Facebook account.

Seriously, though, this proposed law and its obvious effects bring two issues into clear focus: First, the true constituents of the US Congress are the big business moguls, and second, that we cannot trust our government with any power that we do not expect them to abuse.

Just in case you get baseless complaints about you...

2012-01-20T06:19:12.602-09:00

Just in case you get baseless complaints about your comments on the obvious failure of the 'war on drugs', here is a link to the Global Commission on Drug Policy and its report.
http://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/

An excellent post, Jim, though I noticed the same ...

2012-01-20T05:47:22.995-09:00

An excellent post, Jim, though I noticed the same thing Moorcat did: Nixon declared the War On Drugs, though Reagan did escalate it considerably. That really just emphasizes your point, though: it's been almost forty years, not twenty, and it hasn't worked.

I'm writing a response, but because I have to ...

2012-01-20T05:29:05.552-09:00

I'm writing a response, but because I have to run out, don't have time to finish right now.

First SOPA, which I have actually read, is dreadful.

I agree with much of what you say about it won't work, on the other hand there is a real problem here unless you want to start watching movies produced by your son's class mates and shot on hand held cameras.

[In the interest of full disclosure, on this subject I reported to a guy who reported to Mickey Mouse himself, Mike Eisner of Disney]