tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post4285719375782085004..comments2024-03-28T14:52:13.218-05:00Comments on Stonekettle Station: The Road to HellJim Wrighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comBlogger159125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-72915565936254367552015-01-13T12:50:28.377-06:002015-01-13T12:50:28.377-06:00The FBI agent, Ali Soufan (THE BLACK BANNERS) was ...The FBI agent, Ali Soufan (THE BLACK BANNERS) was getting good and actionable intelligence using his knowledge of the Koran & the region. Then, came the "professional" CIA contractors with their water buckets, the FBI were recalled and the turf war was settled. While reading Bob Woodward's book (STATE OF DENIAL) I came across the statement by President Bush that he wanted the CIA to find the connection between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. The contractors tortured until some poor bastard lied to gain relief from the pain. "W" got his talking point for invading Iraq.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-83901040991601320912014-12-21T15:25:25.316-06:002014-12-21T15:25:25.316-06:00Pretty much agree, Jim. Although I'm non-party...Pretty much agree, Jim. Although I'm non-party-affiliated, I am on board with the Libertarians about not passing laws on paper that are not enforceable in reality. Alcohol Prohibition was well-intended, but it didn't work. Drug prohibition isn't working either because of popular demand. <br /><br />Torture is also occurring among the oblivious general population, especially among gangs, human trafficking victims, in the prisons, in schools that resemble prisons, and torture is broadcast through TV, cable, movies, etc. as entertainment.<br /><br />I'm not about legislating behaviors by force -- but for damned sure I want to know when I'm around people who have sadistic proclivities. And I agree, as public policy, torture was and is incompatible with responsible leadership. Unfortunately, a lot of our leadership is irresponsible -- and being a leader is a pain in the ass. I wouldn't want to be a leader either.Nikkinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-78648767125429773102014-12-18T19:47:24.156-06:002014-12-18T19:47:24.156-06:00Nikki,
I was addressing a fellow vet in regards ...Nikki, <br /><br />I was addressing a fellow vet in regards to our shared experience regarding respect for service, I was not making a general statement. <br /><br />That said, sure. Okay. I don't disagree with anything you said. In theory at least, anyway. If you read enough of my stuff, eventually you'll come across the recurring theme of rights and responsibilities and that a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, i.e. a Republic, requires that <i>the people</i> be educated and informed and <i>responsible</i> for their nation. <br /><br />That said, go ahead, legislate it. You can't legislate social responsibility or respect, not in a free society, you'll end up living in Feudal Japan. <br /><br />Freedom is about choice - and especially the consequences of those choices. If you truly believe in freedom, if you truly believe as a member of the military that you are defending freedom, then you have to understand that some people are going to choose to be oblivious and irresponsible and ignorant. Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-17213840001924003422014-12-18T19:33:03.173-06:002014-12-18T19:33:03.173-06:00Jim, someone linked to your blog so here I am. Th...Jim, someone linked to your blog so here I am. This that you wrote: "America owes you nothing. Most of the people around you are oblivious and they always will be - that's what we were doing out there in the dark and dangerous places, giving them the freedom and the security to be oblivious..."<br /><br />I disagree with that. Here's why. Power brings responsibility. Different sectors of society have different responsibilities. We all share collective responsibilities of citizens. <br /><br />"Obliviousness" is irresponsibility. If you were fighting to give people space to be irresponsible -- maybe reconsider freedom to be irresponsible as a worthwhile goal?<br /><br />Why are people oblivious? Many are not literate. News organizations have not fulfilled their role with integrity. Education entertains/keep busy/promotes consumerism and fashionable attitudes, but fails to instruct far too many US citizens in world geography, foreign languages, civics, cultural history and much more that is necessary for responsible voting/governance.<br /><br />Citizens who hold positions of world power had huge responsibilities. We are losing that position. I think many US citizens did not want the world responsibility in the first place. While politicians (who were voted in) bumble about overseas, using the military as tools, our communities and schools are turning into gangland territories, ruled by fists, shootings, hammers and torching of people who get in the way. (Look up some recent Memphis and Mississippi news if you aren't aware of the trends, like "Gang Disciples", 'Fam Mob", Courtland, Poplar Plaza. For whatever reason those terms don't show up on the front page, despite remarkable brutality, death and property damage). <br /><br />But back to what you said -- the military was entrusted with responsibilities to protect, but that did not and does not relieve non-military people within the U.S. of different, separate responsibilities that are also essential. People who wield the privilege of power cannot afford to be oblivious, and should not be excused from exercising vigilance and diligence (and ethics).Nikkinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-40227991546613985142014-12-18T11:40:15.665-06:002014-12-18T11:40:15.665-06:00Don't be sad.I'm really glad to be done wi...Don't be sad.I'm really glad to be done with this reality. I really feel sorry for my kids. Son computer geek, daughter usn vet.They are the ones that have to fix what some of us fucked up.It' going to take a very loooooong time. BobAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-5470970182565601732014-12-17T16:33:44.956-06:002014-12-17T16:33:44.956-06:00"You know this Country of ours can be taken, ..."You know this Country of ours can be taken, Right out from under us ... there our [are] men who at this very minute are plotting against us."<br /><br />That just has to be white supremacy bullshit doesn't it? This country of "ours"? Plotting against "us"? To "take" the country? Even the shitbags in A.Q. in it's headiest days never considered "taking" the U.S., nor did anyone ever worry that they might. So who does this guy want to torture? Sounds like anyone who dares to walk around not being white. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-8661463948849974552014-12-17T12:33:10.462-06:002014-12-17T12:33:10.462-06:00Of all the officials, politicians, and political c...Of all the officials, politicians, and political commentators, in my opinion only John McCain has the credentials to talk about torture. <br /> <br />Once 'Dick' has experienced what John McCain did, I may listen to him. Hagar the Horriblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11835631471335088847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-43774074868099016192014-12-17T11:50:50.484-06:002014-12-17T11:50:50.484-06:00Most likely. The phrase does seem to trace back to...Most likely. The phrase does seem to trace back to that sort of origin. <br /><br />Folks like Tonto are internet patriots. All piss and vinegar and full of soundbites from The Blaze. What little thinking they do is with their dicks. Which explains their worldview - dicks are amoral organs on the best of days. Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-60742674585132458382014-12-17T07:19:52.785-06:002014-12-17T07:19:52.785-06:00"Cry Me A River" seems to show up all ov..."Cry Me A River" seems to show up all over the internet in "pro-torture" comments. I can't bear to watch Beck or his fellow ululators on the tube, but I do wonder if someone like him must be the fetid source of this river of faux tears. <br /><br />BB Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-13569193651132936082014-12-16T16:06:16.654-06:002014-12-16T16:06:16.654-06:00In Tonto's defense, he probably has 100's ...In Tonto's defense, he probably has 100's of citations for bravery earned during his tour with the 101st Keyboard Commandos.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13190550390894019841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-90341943057618440912014-12-16T15:45:08.701-06:002014-12-16T15:45:08.701-06:00What do we expect in a country that tortures it...What do we expect in a country that tortures it's own prisoners? Why does a mentally ill person deserve to even be in prison let alone be tortured? Why should a heroin addict be tortured because they have a health problem? Why should inmates be in solitary confinement and denied health care? Why are the whistleblowers the ones in prison rather than the perpetrators of the crimes against humanity? There are people who are incarcerated either in a prison or a psych unit to keep them from telling what they know in connection to lots of government agencies. They label them as crazy, you know like they did to Lt. Col. Blaylock and myself. Bullies are the same no matter what level they are on. Celia Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15733639730157569439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-11531605144883739992014-12-16T14:54:54.179-06:002014-12-16T14:54:54.179-06:00A most puissant quote. A most puissant quote. Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16461290596679690431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-33510037437484720922014-12-16T14:31:56.072-06:002014-12-16T14:31:56.072-06:00In response to your (Jim) post on FB about tonto&#...In response to your (Jim) post on FB about tonto's ravings: On June 28, 2001, my husband (Aydogan Fuat aka Sheykh Abdul Kerim) was arrested in Izmir, Turkey, for leading a prayer service. He was a dual US-Cypriot citizen of Turkish ethnicity, and he was being held as a political prisoner for violating a sacred cow - Turkey's official definition of Turkishness. The Turkish government at that time was subject to repeated army coups and its prisons were playgrounds for police torture, primarily against political (read "too religious" or Kurdish) prisoners. The only leverage we had as Americans working for my husband's release was our country's reputation as a nation which valued human rights. He was ultimately acquitted and released on December 6, 2001, the day after, and as a result of, a private conversation between Sec State Colin Powell and Prime Minister Ecevit in a limo ride between official venues. My husband may have been the last American for whom anyone could negotiate from a position of relative moral superiority (possibly even then more of a perception than a reality). The US response to 9/11 was a disaster for Americans because the perpetrators of that response at the highest levels betrayed our honor and principles and the trolls at the lowest levels proclaim and/or act out their own ignorant concurrence. I feel for Americans who have the misfortune now of being held under inhumane circumstances for political purposes. Their (our) country doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on when it comes to negotiating their release. What a mess. What a shame. What a waste. Meryem Fuatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-54085065574618614652014-12-16T13:32:12.842-06:002014-12-16T13:32:12.842-06:00Agreed, hedgewytch! In multiples!Agreed, hedgewytch! In multiples!Ted Zocco-Hochhalterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831793662782957647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-69261203790237160782014-12-16T13:09:27.325-06:002014-12-16T13:09:27.325-06:00"Who the fuck cares the who and the how...&qu...<i>"Who the fuck cares the who and the how..."</i><br /><br />Might makes right. The ends justify the means. Eye for an eye and a bloody tooth for a bloody tooth, says so right in the bible. It's war. That's what they said in WWII, no doubt - on the Nazi side I mean. We're right. We're the master race. Who cares about the who and the how? Herd 'em into the box cars, stand 'em in front of the machine guns, gas 'em, burn 'em, no apologies. Adolf Hitler, Hideki Tojo, Pol Pot, Joseph Stalin, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein, the knights of Klu Klux Klan, they all justified their brutality with the same words. Who the fuck cares the who and the how?<br /><br /><i>".. those guys we tortured would do far worse to us then we would ever consider doing to them."</i><br /><br />Probably. Probably they would. So? What's the point of taking down a brutal dictator if we're no better? Where's all this vaunted morality we claim? Where is this so-called exceptionalism? What's the point of hunting down terrorists if we become agents of terror ourselves? What's the point of our freedom and our liberty if we end up living in a walled camp surrounded by barbed wire and enemies, terrified to venture outside or to the grocery store without being armed?<br /><br /><i>"The fact our Democrat controlled senate chose to give our enemys this fuel for there fire is self serving bull shit."</i>[sic]<br /><br />So, just to be clear, we DON'T want to know what our government has been doing? Does that apply to ... Benghazi too? The IRS? The VA? NSA? Or just torture? Seems to me that any government of the people, by the people, and for the people has a right and duty to know what's being done in the people's name. Also, if the report was "self-serving" on the part of the Democrats, then perhaps the "Democrat controlled Senate" should have released it BEFORE the election. This way, well, it seems like they were just doing their jobs. <br /><br /><i>"I know you fellas here, Shit a green squealing worm when you read that report."</i><br /><br />ANY American should be appalled at what was contained in the report. We are a nation that tortures people. Those are not the actions of a just and moral people, those are NOT the actions of exceptionalism.<b> THE GOOD GUYS DON'T GO AROUND TORTURING PEOPLE, THAT'S WHAT OUR ENEMIES DO. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE OUR ENEMIES.</b> Torture is the tool of dictators and tyrants and brutal sons of bitches. <br /><br /><i>"I know you all feel we should ask these bad men a polite question on were the bad men are going to strike next and when they say FUCK YOU! as any man with any balls normally would, we smile give them 500 dollars and a Letter of Apology from our commander and Chief, Does they fly with you guys."</i>[sic]<br /><br />Right, because those are the ONLY two options. Torture or let 'em go. And tell me something, that man, the one with the big hairy balls? What takes more courage? Holding true to your honor, your duty, your law, your morality, your ethics ... or not? Maybe, and here's a thought, Tonto, you should stop thinking with your balls.<br /><br /><i>"...you fellas are not the ones who would consider trying to stop them, No No your the guys who whould complain about how the rest of us tried to stop them" </i>[sic]"<br /><br />24 years on active duty. 3 wars. Decorated 13 times. And I never once compromised my honor or that of my country. I faced plenty of enemies, most of them thought just like you. <br /><br />Your reasoning ability isn't any better than your spelling or grammar. Fuck you, Tonto, and the horse you rode in on. <br /><br /><br /><br />Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-12222280188988440872014-12-16T12:19:13.444-06:002014-12-16T12:19:13.444-06:00Jim:
Maybe comments should have tags.
I can't...Jim:<br /><br />Maybe comments should have tags.<br />I can't tell if Tonto is writing sarcasm or what.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-58284674212277821582014-12-16T11:58:54.686-06:002014-12-16T11:58:54.686-06:00Cheney is our own Goring. He is a war criminal. ...Cheney is our own Goring. He is a war criminal. <br />Him NOT being charged as such, pisses on the graves of all those that died in WWII and those that didn't - and suffered the atrocities seen in war for the rest of their lives.<br />The Nuremberg Trials were to mean something, a justification for the winners going to war and setting legal standards for the world to use to (hopefully) keep peace, create some law.<br />The Geneva Convention is to mean something, some laws for conduct during war.<br />The UN Charter is to mean something, some laws for conduct among countries.<br />The Constitution is to mean something, a set of laws to order our country by.<br />True laws are like gravity, everybody is effected. <br />If everyone isn't effected, you have rules. <br />We are ruled. The rulers don't need to follow what are called laws. "The rabble, the mob" has to.frog33https://www.blogger.com/profile/06824550346184447508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-15859018793516980932014-12-16T10:08:59.404-06:002014-12-16T10:08:59.404-06:00“The real unforgivable acts are committed by calm ...“The real unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, without anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in that future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present - they are real.” --LM Bujold, Shards of HonorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-74631342212903566422014-12-16T10:07:21.065-06:002014-12-16T10:07:21.065-06:00Cry me a fuckin river, We are at war, Who the fuck...Cry me a fuckin river, We are at war, Who the fuck cares the who and the how, We are in a war and those guys we tortured would do far worse to us then we would ever consider doing to them, The fact our Democrat controlled senate chose to give our enemys this fuel for there fire is self serving bull shit. I know you fellas here, Shit a green squealing worm when you read that report. I know you all feel we should ask these bad men a polite question on were the bad men are going to strike next and when they say FUCK YOU! as any man with any balls normally would, we smile give them 500 dollars and a Letter of Apology from our commander and Chief, Does they fly with you guys. You know this Country of ours can be taken, Right out from under us, Its a mean nasty world out there and there our men who at this very minute are plotting against us. But then again you fellas are not the ones who would consider trying to stop them, No No your the guys who whould complain about how the rest of us tried to stop them. Tontohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07267335319877009104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-62005628351549341402014-12-15T17:10:52.773-06:002014-12-15T17:10:52.773-06:00I feel a little disoriented when I find myself agr...I feel a little disoriented when I find myself agreeing with Senator McCain, but he certainly nailed it on this issue.ebrkenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-38614983482333884302014-12-15T09:13:27.526-06:002014-12-15T09:13:27.526-06:00Mr. Cheney said the other night on the TV that any...Mr. Cheney said the other night on the TV that anyone who takes the line that Jim is taking is just being "self righteous". <br /><br />Self-righteous says he. Hmmm. Kinda like: We Hold These Truths to be Self Evident.<br /><br />BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-39576632208271903952014-12-15T07:10:09.958-06:002014-12-15T07:10:09.958-06:00Well said, Jim. I couldn't use exactly your w...Well said, Jim. I couldn't use exactly your words yesterday in the pulpit, nor does my congregation allow me the time to go on at the same length, but I tried to frame the discussion of the "enhanced interrogation techniques" in the same way - it's not about utility, it's about morality. Torture is wrong. Period. And it's not who we are or who we aspire to be. (John McCain, at least in this instance, was right.) http://thefunstons.com/?p=7780Eric Funstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06723581120815649861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-71164529982853690452014-12-15T06:33:47.187-06:002014-12-15T06:33:47.187-06:00Jerry:
When I enlisted in 1984 I had to raise my r...Jerry:<br />When I enlisted in 1984 I had to raise my right and solemnly swear to protect and defend the Constitution. I believe when people re-enlisted (I went from Active to NG then became a commissioned Officer in 1989), they had to reswear the same as at first. Enlisted Basic Training and Officer Candidate School then Officer Basic all had some elements of lawful orders and disobeying non-lawful orders as well, so nobody can fairly say "I was just following orders".<br />Virginia: I found very few blind followers during my career, although there was always a willingness to follow the leader's direction when past experience showed that they kept us alive, fed and watered.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07912550058291955875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-89761192990803653862014-12-14T21:51:16.767-06:002014-12-14T21:51:16.767-06:00I stand by all patriots who know torture is WRONG ...I stand by all patriots who know torture is WRONG and have the courage to say so.<br />This is an excellent treatise, Mr. Wright. Thank you. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09454715064890212106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-40488835610933781862014-12-14T19:36:14.733-06:002014-12-14T19:36:14.733-06:00As usual, you nailed it, Jim. Now, let's all s...As usual, you nailed it, Jim. Now, let's all slap down soon-to-be-former Sen. Tom Coburn. Why? He singlehandedly made it more difficult for veterans to access mental health care. A pox on his house.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com