tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post3697392194154569180..comments2024-03-20T12:34:55.100-05:00Comments on Stonekettle Station: Negotiating With Terrorists: The CounterpointJim Wrighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comBlogger255125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-45642162066088873542016-11-05T08:32:48.571-05:002016-11-05T08:32:48.571-05:00It's been a few years since the writing of thi...It's been a few years since the writing of this entry but I only recently found Stonekettle Station and Jim Wright's FB page. As a brief side note, I spent 7 years on active duty & 13 in the AKANG as a Registered Nurse. I never served in an active combat zone although I was well trained and ready if I was called on to do so.<br /> <br />I have not read through all the comments so if a similar perspective was mentioned you have my apologies for being redundant. <br />As a Veteran, I was particularly interested in Jim's opinion of this situation & after reading it I wasn't disappointed. As with Jim, I can appreciate the Marine Captain's perspective, if anyone is entitled to his opinion it's him<br /><br />My impression after I first read about the events that transpired is that Sgt Bergdahl fell through the cracks. <br />Based on the information available, IMO Sgt Bergdahl should never have deployed & perhaps never been in the army. In 2006 he received an uncharacterised discharged from the USCG after 26 days of basic training for psychological reasons. Upon deployment he socially isolated himself & displayed significant displeasure, as well as making numerous comments to fellow soldiers of his displeasure. Additionally, the recent death of a fellow soldier apparently darkened his mood even more. Sgt Bergdahl was so disenfranchised with the Army and his mission that he thought it would be a good idea to leave his post and walk away to start a new life... from the Paktika provence in SE Afghanistan? Who in their right mind would do something like this? What he did or didn't do after being captured and why are yet to be determined. <br /> <br />Whether he was suffering from a previously diagnosed psychological issue or PTSD, he was clearly in a situation no soldier should have to endure. Based on the above and and comments previously posted by Jim, there was no other alternative than to get this solder home. Rikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12219239868176440603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-11547423591971987572015-03-25T18:23:46.591-05:002015-03-25T18:23:46.591-05:00Thank you for posting the Captain's letter. W...Thank you for posting the Captain's letter. While I agree with your words, coming from a family with a ton of ex-service members, I can understand where the Captain is coming from. This country is so full of hate. All of us need to take a few deep breaths. It would be preferable if we did that before each time we opened our mouths. Bergdahl will be a hot topic for a long time, it would be nice if we could discuss the situation with cool heads.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00586572503699635130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-11634822702314288812014-08-02T18:37:14.924-05:002014-08-02T18:37:14.924-05:00I know I'm late to the party, but I want to th...I know I'm late to the party, but I want to thank you for this essay. It's more than refreshing to read someone who can have a strong opinion AND allow others to have a different one. I struggle to achieve that on a daily basis, and often lose. Despite my frequent losses, I know that vitriolic partisanship and willful closed mindedness are only making things worse. Ignorant vitriolic partisanship and willful closed mindedness....well, words fail me. I once read a quote that smart people learn from their mistakes, geniuses learn from the mistakes of others. I wonder if the same can be said from learning from the experiences of others. Hope so.<br /><br />Only anonymous because none of the profiles fits.<br /><br />Jim von SteinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-86139779851943517772014-07-05T09:05:53.098-05:002014-07-05T09:05:53.098-05:00When I read of this I recalled what a friend said ...When I read of this I recalled what a friend said to me once about mental health statistics: 1% of people are schizophrenic. (He said it was a rough estimate.) I thought out of all the soldiers I would be surprised if one (Bergdahl) <i>didn't</i> go full-on, delusional nuts, just by the odds alone, not even counting stress.<br />I have no information if that's true, but it would explain a lot. Jumperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794110173836133321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-47676498239448554772014-06-21T07:05:59.424-05:002014-06-21T07:05:59.424-05:00Well spoken. This touched a nerve with me. From th...Well spoken. This touched a nerve with me. From the beginning of the recent Bergdahl news frenzy my mantra has been "we don't have enough information". Too many people looking for a microphone instead of looking for answers. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12988570020658264966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-24973620401601719922014-06-19T19:59:16.949-05:002014-06-19T19:59:16.949-05:00I loved your first article. I felt so vindicated b...I loved your first article. I felt so vindicated by many of the things you said about how we treat people lately and all the hate that is spewed so regularly. This follow-up was absolutely beautiful. I am so disappointed to read that you have had people "agreeing" with you while name-calling and hate-mongering. It is as if they didn't really read what you said at all. <br /> I can see both sides (and I thank you for sharing!) /and understand better why some many current and former soldiers feels so strongly about this deal. It makes perfect sense that they would have to think the worst of Bergdhal while on the battlefield. Anything else could be suicide. But, like both you and the Marine Capt say, most of us don't know what it is like to actually serve. We, as American citizens, are expected to assume innocence until guilt is proven. That is a hard thing in these times, partly because we have seen so many criminals literally get away with murder and molestation. (OJ? DuPont? Johnson?) But the system being broken does not give us the right to convict without benefit of a trial. This must stop. The only one who will ever really know what happened in any case is the suspect. The rest is a matter for a tribunal or court.<br />In closing, I want to also ask those who speak against the pundits and hate-mongers to do so without name-calling and venom-spewing, lest we be no better examples than those to whom we object. Hate begets hate. Fear begets fear.Channonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10564456610314908327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-4971854610943796992014-06-18T17:57:09.236-05:002014-06-18T17:57:09.236-05:00I share your sadness.I share your sadness.Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16461290596679690431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-14076822230102440652014-06-18T15:31:05.874-05:002014-06-18T15:31:05.874-05:00Elizabeth,
If Dick Cheney were at my door being gn...Elizabeth,<br />If Dick Cheney were at my door being gnawed on by a coyote, I would certainly shoo the coyote away. Our community is infested with cottontail rabbits, and I want our coyotes to be hungry!gravymeisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16075831177588700301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-60080605124014126182014-06-18T14:31:51.406-05:002014-06-18T14:31:51.406-05:00This is one of the most complicated little furball...This is one of the most complicated little furballs out of the war and I'm gonna wait until all the debriefings and everything else is done before I'll have much to say about Bergdahl one way or the other. But as a veteran, it galls me that anyone in America would have had us leave him in the hands of the Taliban and just abandon him due to all the reasons you wrote so eloquently about in part 1 and more. And how on earth, can I possibly, reasonably, suggest to the young men and women in my own family that military service is good, can be done to fulfill a duty or obligation or serve as a way station toward a different worthy goal when the non-serving civilians would throw them to the wolves because the non-serving civilians hate the president and for that hate would forsake them utterly. How can I make such suggestions now?Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16461290596679690431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-9978934396241326582014-06-18T12:27:04.538-05:002014-06-18T12:27:04.538-05:00I respect both you and the Marine captain for this...I respect both you and the Marine captain for this addendum. Thank you for sharing his letter. Situations are simple only for those whose understanding has all the depth of a sheet of paper. For what it's worth, I did not think your original rant tarred everyone who disagreed with you with the same brush you used on McCain et al. and I share your disgust that some people used it to try to browbeat another veteran, and one with particular knowledge and experience we older vets do not have. <br /><br />On the matter of "Was it worth it?" That's not a question that can be answered by looking at the monetary or blood cost of this one act alone. The worth is in what kind of people we are. Are we the kind of people who shrug and toss the failures aside--military or civilian, child or adult, good or bad--or are we the kind of people who bring them home and try to figure out how they failed. I've heard a lot of "let 'em die" rhetoric applied to the poor, the sick, the disabled, the person who's failed in some way that offends someone else in the past decades, and I think it defines a meanness, a selfishness, a callousness that does not bode well for the future. At the same time, I myself have a little list of those who, if they showed up on my doorstep, would find the door closed and locked and me behind it defending my "castle" with something lethal. (Chances are small any of them would ever end up here--they're rich and live far away and have minions to take care of them...but it's still a moral quandary. If Dick Cheney was in dire straits on my doorstep, with a coyote gnawing on his leg, would I help him? The answer defines me, more than it does him.)<br /><br />As it happens, I was sent a link to the rant you've now removed from this site, and came here to get the original link to send to a friend rather than use that one. I'm sorry you've removed it, but fully understand why you did so. Elizabeth Moonhttp://www.elizabethmoon.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-66021090219508441692014-06-18T03:48:06.179-05:002014-06-18T03:48:06.179-05:00My father, passed 10 years now, was a 20 year old ...My father, passed 10 years now, was a 20 year old private 82nd AB, 508 PIR, E Co when he jumped into the chaos of the pre-D-Day night, separated from his squad and leadership in that moment, to land in a hedge-rowed field next to a German Panzer Div HQ, armed with a rifle. He was wounded on the way down and again a couple days later, after capture, when the truck convoy in which he and other prisoners were being transported was strafed by American fighters. He spent the next 6 months as a POW, was marched through Paris in a propaganda parade, and moved from one German camp to another, and another, ending up in east Germany in the dead of winter. This camp was overrun by the Russian Army and any Allied POW not killed or badly wounded by the assault, was taken as slave labor back to the east, my dad included. Dad managed to escape out of Gdansk, Poland (to Tehran, Persia a story in itself but not pertinent here) while 10s of thousands of American GIs remained in Russian custody, moved on to work camps in Siberia and never repatriated. I have no doubt, were my father here to comment on the Bergdahl case, that he would emphatically support whatever steps were required to bring the soldier home.SCSO Sam 26 (retired)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13808875231184471757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-16523937022829025972014-06-17T17:51:22.314-05:002014-06-17T17:51:22.314-05:00I know this is a weird thing to focus on, but I wa...I know this is a weird thing to focus on, but I want to touch on one of the "anonymous" statements.<br /><br />"Captain America" could in no way shape or form be a General or Admiral after his 70 odd years in the ice. NO ONE becomes an O-7 or above without going through a formal review board process. The most he could achieve is O-6 or Colonel in either the Army or US Air Force. And even then, I believe there are limits on automatic promotions that would limit it even further. In the USAF you don't get to be even enlisted ranks of E-7 to E-9 without a board of promotions either.<br /><br />I saw the newest movie twice and its a fun ride. But just felt like that was something that I wanted to clear up.holczer13https://www.blogger.com/profile/01807001064476877695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-26358095867266661922014-06-17T11:01:05.906-05:002014-06-17T11:01:05.906-05:00Thank you so much for presenting two of the sides ...Thank you so much for presenting two of the sides of this argument (of course there are more sides... but here are a couple). I agree with much of what you said, and I appreciate the insight that you and the Marine captain gave. I especially appreciated the perspective in Addendum 1 that the military had to assume Bergdahl was compromised. It really does make sense, and points out the necessary differences between military and civilian courts and justice. <br /><br />However, I'm not 100% sure I agree as much on Addendum 2 (although it may be that I misunderstood your meaning). "A lot has been made about whether or not the six soldiers who died in the aftermath of Bergdahl’s disappearance specifically died looking for Bergdahl. ..Those six dead men, along with all the others who fell in this shitty war, are indeed the price we Americans paid. They are the price Bergdahl’s unit paid. They’re the price Bergdahl paid, intentionally or not." Let me preface this by saying: I think it's terrible that they died there... I agree with you that it's shitty as hell. <br /><br />I'm sure that they, along with everyone else stationed there, was looking for Bergdahl as a sideline to their existing missions. But when the Marine captain and anyone else puts it thus: "But since he originally cost at least 6 lives by being a little ****, the vote was that he did not rate any more American blood.", it implies that Bergdahl was directly responsible for those 6 military deaths. <br /><br />That's the key, and why I feel that the narrative regarding these particular deaths should be challenged: Was Bergdahl DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE? As in, information that he gave led to their deaths, or that their deaths were directly related to a primary mission to search and rescue. From the reports that I'm seeing, that does not appear to be the case. And I don't think it's out of line or disrespectful to those service members to object to the use of their deaths as fodder for the blame Olympics. <br /><br />If Bergdahl is a deserter, he should be Court Martialed and punished. If he gave aid and comfort to the enemy, same thing. And any deaths that can be directly traced to his activities should be laid at his door. <br /><br />But speaking strictly for myself, if pundits were trying to use the death of my loved one as fodder to blame someone who was not directly involved in their death, I would by pretty pissed off by it. It isn't fair to the sacrifice that those soldiers made, to the sacrifices that their families made, to lay their deaths at the feet of someone if that person does not deserve it. <br /><br />So the truth of those statements that directly link Bergdahl to those soldiers' deaths MATTERS. <br /><br />I hope I put my objection to a VERY fine point clearly enough. If it's a rabbit hole, my apologies. Kate Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11690827445737399724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-53228399266127349122014-06-17T08:18:45.480-05:002014-06-17T08:18:45.480-05:00If I may ask one question (from my poorly informed...If I may ask one question (from my poorly informed perspective): <br /><br />Are you and the Captain arguing over the price of returning Bergdahl? <br /><br />Or to put it another way, would he have been satisfied with a hypothetical solution that would have returned Bergdahl without costing any soldier or civilian lives and would not have aided the enemy? Mikeymikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10966920055829459599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-46333464245138582572014-06-16T16:38:34.535-05:002014-06-16T16:38:34.535-05:00I don't usually comment in open forums on the ...I don't usually comment in open forums on the internet because I generally don't see the point. Too many trolls, not enough uncommon sense and decency. In fact, I probably won't comment on this site again! However, I wanted to let you know you've gained another reader with these posts about Bergdahl and the Iraq War. I am not a veteran - the military wouldn't take my half-blind, asthmatic, anemic self even if I begged - but I do support our troops... And I don't mean in that bullshit bumper sticker kind of way. I'm horrified by the nonsense reasons we as a nation have used to put Our Own into harm's way, and for me the only reason we need to bring a soldier home is that he's one of ours. Nothing else matters. S/He took an oath to protect us, and bringing them home ought to be a promise We The People give to them in return.<br /><br />I respect that you let people who disagree with you voice their opinions as well, and that you have no tolerance for hate-spewing idjits. It's another reason I'll be reading, and following on Facebook.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-73806089019464630512014-06-16T09:49:12.455-05:002014-06-16T09:49:12.455-05:00"It is the mark of an educated mind to be abl..."It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle<br /><br />Thanks for the other perspective, even though I think your previous article was spot-on. Allisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02373659018531566209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-32837376063195252182014-06-15T10:44:56.300-05:002014-06-15T10:44:56.300-05:00This Washington Post piece reveals quite a bit abo...<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/bergdahls-writings-reveal-a-fragile-young-man/2014/06/11/fb9349fe-f165-11e3-bf76-447a5df6411f_story.html" rel="nofollow">This <i>Washington Post</i> piece</a> reveals quite a bit about Bowe Bergdahl and the state of mind that made him do what he did. It wasn't the teachings of Osama Bin Laden or Mullah Omar that motivated him to desert (which it appears he definitely did in a planned and premeditated way), but instead the teachings of...Ayn Rand. Bergdahl was "going Galt", <a href="http://driftglass.blogspot.com/2014/06/professional-left-podcast-236.html" rel="nofollow">as Driftglass put it</a> in his most recent podcast with his wife Bluegal. And yes, it would appear Bergdahl was quite touched in the head apart from the influence of Ms. Rand.Mister Robotohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08724938709642010624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-6167009425055671822014-06-15T09:18:42.410-05:002014-06-15T09:18:42.410-05:00I'm saddened there aren't 535 of you to cl...I'm saddened there aren't 535 of you to clean up Washington. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-32529592899825017742014-06-15T06:19:34.814-05:002014-06-15T06:19:34.814-05:00Let's not break out the tar and feathers for J...Let's not break out the tar and feathers for Josh Korder just yet. I read recently that the military has been giving out "other than honorable" discharges in some cases to avoid having to give certain veterans' benefits.<br /><br />(Not that I think it was right of him to trash talk a fellow soldier on Fox "News," just want to give him the benefit of the doubt.)Aileen Mileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11383491629101394138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-60643902301729041552014-06-15T03:03:54.103-05:002014-06-15T03:03:54.103-05:00When I look at it from one aspect I figure there&#...When I look at it from one aspect I figure there's not much decent parents wouldn't do to <br />ensure their child is returned. When I look at it on another angle I can see a soldier <br />disillusioned by the greed and suffering about him and I wouldn't blame him for wanting <br />to abandon the fight. And if I turn to another facet I can look upon the disgust of some <br />whose comrades are buried for the attempts to save a person they despise and I can <br />conjure the anguish of families grieved. And on the opposite facing I can imagine the <br />same grief fallen on the families of those we dare call our enemies.<br /><br />No one aspect is more righteous or deserving or sensible than the other. Some facings may <br />gleam with a temporary brilliance but they are all blemished and marred. And all these <br />planes combine to make this jewel that you can turn and think upon and appreciate and <br />fear for the diabolical beauty of its creation.<br /><br />Sometimes I feel compelled to stare into the jewel, to see my tiny reflection in each <br />aspect, lest my image be imprisoned in a single face. And the sum of all these surfaces <br />and all the mass between them is a tangible weight. Lust_Lackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09707924341030971077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-8239323204964504782014-06-13T17:56:12.938-05:002014-06-13T17:56:12.938-05:00I'm a 10 year Navy veteran. I started in the N...I'm a 10 year Navy veteran. I started in the Navy at about the same time as you. I left because of my "differences of opinion" with President Reagan. I was sent here by a shipmate of mine who thought I might enjoy your blog because he thinks you are "righteous" and that he also tends to agree with my own opinions. And after having read your last 2 entries, I'm feeling the same way he does.<br />Mostly I simply want to thank you for speaking a well thought out and advised opinion. It won't be popular with some (as you certainly pointed out). But for those men and women who are independent thinkers, socially and morally responsible, politically centrist, and not bound to any other doctrine but truth - you Sir are a breath of fresh air. Alan Vervaekenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-79722809608541929412014-06-13T15:53:33.426-05:002014-06-13T15:53:33.426-05:00This is the first time I've posted here. I'...This is the first time I've posted here. I'm a long time reader. Thanks for presenting us with both sides.<br /><br />I've only been sure of a few things as I've listened to the bits of this debate I could stomach over the last days. I am not educated enough to form a credible opinion on this matter. No one on FOX Noise is educated enough to form a credible opinion on this matter. If Bergdahl was my son I would do anything I could to get him home and think some of the treatment of his parents is abominable. <br /><br />That's all.Phosphor Essencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08153618316813542727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-82898278077615448602014-06-12T13:22:15.944-05:002014-06-12T13:22:15.944-05:00I'm not given to hyperbole, but it seems to me...I'm not given to hyperbole, but it seems to me that the rules of war are not always internally consistent, but situationally consistent (with a few exceptions governed by formal conventions). The tension arising from that can lead to some pretty divergent opinions. <br /><br />In general, it's a good thing to get back a service member who's been in the camp of the hostile - either because they were captured or otherwise - just because that means that the appropriate authorities can adjudicate the situation. <br /><br />OTOH (and the captain brings this up - I think, wrongly, but once again, he is looking at this from a command perspective), if you're exchanging a possibly compromised service member for known hostiles who are guaranteed to become active once released, the equation tilts again. <br /><br />I tend to think that there is no meaninful choice but to do the first option above, because the world is what it is. Sometimes that - that is, dealing with the overarching situation rather than ideal principles - means it's necessary to negotiate with people we are otherwise at odds with, using the hand we're dealt. <br /><br />At a higher command level than the captain (e.g., at the executive level), the situation may have been viewed as an opportunity to get a service member - however possibly flawed - back, while at the same time putting well-observed hostiles into the field in hopes that they'd inadvertently tip their hand. <br /><br />Either way, I don't know. I can see both views; one's tactical, one's potentially strategic. But I tend to think that service member welfare is a collective responsibility of the entire country, and whether they've done right or wrong, it's incumbent on the country that sent them to war to handle that adjudication - and sometimes that means doing distasteful things towards an end which, in the final analysis, takes responsibility for the service member. <br /><br />I've never served. I don't claim service experience. But I do know from responsibility, and the act of getting Bergdahl back seems like acknowledging that his welfare is ultimately the responsibility of the United States - and other courses potentially disregard the essential nature of the rule of law. <br /><br /><br /><br />Matt haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738887948835340373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-49654008981200957922014-06-12T12:52:43.788-05:002014-06-12T12:52:43.788-05:00Karen,
I am so sorry for the loss of your son, as ...Karen,<br />I am so sorry for the loss of your son, as are, I am sure, the rest of Jim's audience.<br />Take care.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-79345636762902195022014-06-12T11:36:05.110-05:002014-06-12T11:36:05.110-05:00To put my question in context: I am a 66 year old ...To put my question in context: I am a 66 year old woman recently retired from a profession in education--about as far from your own experience as is possible. My name is Jean. I do not have TV and get my news these days from All Things Considered and the occasional drift-over on Facebook. The following is a genuine question, one that has drifted though my mind the past weeks as I've listened to ATC, and which your Addendum 2 brought into sharp focus. I figure if anyone can clarify it for me, you can.<br /><br />As you say, and as ATC has reported it, with regard to the 6 men who died while looking for Bergdahl--looking for him was not their primary mission. They were sent out with some other, primary objective(s), with the additional order something to the effect of "See if you can find Bergdahl while you're out there." Much seems to be being made of this issue--whether or not the deaths are attributable to looking for him, and thus whether they can be held to his account. <br /><br />Your addendum seems to imply that their deaths are "The price we paid" for Bergdahl's actions and our commitment to not abandoning our own, and that any discussion of whether or not their deaths are attributable to Bergdahl's disappearance is irrelevant and disrespectful. <br /><br />If that was not your point--could you clarify, please? And if it is what you intended--could you explain to me why it should be irrelevant simply out of respect to their service to and sacrifice for the nation? I mean, I get that they are deserving of respect, and their family and friends of sympathy, respect, and compassion. But I don't get how that would be different from what is owed to any serviceperson who is killed in the line of duty, unless there is reason to believe that they would not have been killed if the injunction to look for Bergdahl had not been added to their primary mission.<br /><br />Hoping my question makes sense.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com