tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post2847371598860405562..comments2024-03-20T12:34:55.100-05:00Comments on Stonekettle Station: The Deification of Ronald ReaganJim Wrighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-1752121857467712362020-10-21T17:49:20.082-05:002020-10-21T17:49:20.082-05:00Defecation, but yeah.Defecation, but yeah.Paula Steinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17319004381299110611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-88179861200726323652016-05-10T00:20:12.184-05:002016-05-10T00:20:12.184-05:00Did the US really send the Navy as close to Soviet...Did the US really send the Navy as close to Soviet installations as possible (by violating Soviet airspace, etc.) and peel off the ships and aircraft at the last moment (often with a Soviet response) during the Reagan years? I've heard (vague) stories of those incidents... which sound similar to what you described aboveLaw Wonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16627278931006086881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-89643756646290151342014-01-16T14:25:54.741-06:002014-01-16T14:25:54.741-06:00I know this is an old post on Stonekettle, but I ...I know this is an old post on Stonekettle, but I noticed your mention of the USS Bainbridge. My cousin currently serves on the USS Bainbridge. He's in communications (I don't know his specific MOS) but I know that he holds himself to the highest standards, and those around him as well. So if the Bainbridge occupies a special place for you, please know she is manned by good men today as well.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14585657394153471598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-1499008086156338082012-09-16T20:45:52.337-05:002012-09-16T20:45:52.337-05:00Sort of a late entry, as I just read this from you...Sort of a late entry, as I just read this from your "Greatest Hits" section. While you served on USS Bainbridge, I was serving at NAVCAMS MED (Naval Communications Area Master Station Mediteranean - I'm sure you knew, but for any of your readers who hate acronyms) Naples, Italy as a young Electronics Technician (ET1). My next tour was on USS Richmond K Turner, which was part of your task force working the Gulf of Sidra, I believe.<br /><br />Your description of Reagan, and the times, both brought back a lot of memories and actually put a voice to some internal conflict I've had with him through the years. I don't know that I'd say I feel exactly the same as you do, but it's pretty close. I didn't agree with the politics, but he was a leader at a time when we really needed one.<br /><br />Another point well taken are the deaths of service members and I respect the way you count them in the original post. From my own experience, my first tour was aboard USS Kitty Hawk and I remember the indoctrination class where the Safety Officer proclaimed that you don't serve a tour on a carrier, you survive one, right before they showed us the Trial by Fire movie (again for those readers not familiar, this is a movie using actual flight deck footage of a fire aboard USS Forrestal - where John McCain was actually one of the pilots who almost died - to drive home safety and respect for learing your damage control roles). We lost six crewmen in different incidents during our WestPac cruise in 1981. Also, I knew, personally, several of the crew of the USS Stark (some had gone there from NAVCAMS Med) which was "accidentally" hit by an Exocet missle fired from an aircraft belonging to our then buddy, Saddam Hussein.<br /><br />Again, thanks for all your posts.Gregnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-72841324178236068902011-12-11T13:13:14.070-06:002011-12-11T13:13:14.070-06:00It's always fascinated me how people like Reag...It's always fascinated me how people like Reagan are deified differently than people like Dr. Martin Luther King or Ghandi.<br /><br />With a guy like Reagan they hold him and say, "This man was the epitome of greatness in this world and you should listen to him, follow his philosophies, and try to be like him."<br /><br />But with someone like Dr. King, the message is, "Look at this man, this great man, this great wonderful man, this great wonderful amazing man, this great wonderful amazing flawless man with such a unique and singular message, the kind of message that only appears once in a lifetime... and now look at you, all human and flawed. You should deify this man and his wondrous ideals... because you, an ordinary human being could NEVER step up and fill his shoes, continue to carry his message. You're just not *flawless* enough of a human being."<br /><br />Never mind that Dr. King was a bit of an STD-spreading womanizer and EXTREMELY radical thinker for his day. The CIA and FBI were deeply worried about his status as a black leader and what he could do with it.<br /><br />Both Reagan and King were charismatic men who's leadership helped shape the modern world. But we're told to aspire to be like the Republican Figurehead even as we're subtly discouraged from thinking we could ever effectively bring people together as well as the Civil Rights Icon.<br /><br />Hrm... my verification word is "hosiffer". I swear I haven't been drinking, my speedometer is broke...Shades of Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15819018522563497158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-29637106189406688282011-05-26T08:29:52.878-05:002011-05-26T08:29:52.878-05:00I saw the title for this one and wondered,"Wh...I saw the title for this one and wondered,"Why would Jim write a blog about Reagan's shit?" Then I looked again and realized that the word was "Deification." After I read the article, I'm thinking maybe it SHOULD have been called "The Defacation of Ronald Reagan." Nice job.Antthenuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04175950421254114425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-40062050731995639382011-02-08T07:24:02.333-06:002011-02-08T07:24:02.333-06:00Not a fan, at all, of Reagan, and think that he is...Not a fan, at all, of Reagan, and think that he is quite possibly the most overrated president ever.<br /><br />This post does balance my views a bit, but I must point out that, actually, the Brady Bill was signed into law in 1994 by Bill Clinton. Reagan supported it but it took that long to overcome the NRA's power in Congress to actually get the law passed.coreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14647003656628845746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-6625616803313581462011-02-05T11:01:24.092-06:002011-02-05T11:01:24.092-06:00Sorry BeeModern, but Clinton got military families...Sorry BeeModern, but Clinton got military families off food stamps by adding the housing allotment to their W-2 forms as non-taxable income. They did NOT get a raise in pay. I know this as fact because my sister and her Petty Officer husband had me doing their taxes during that time. I like Clinton and what he did in office was mostly good and certainly better than anything either Bush or Shrub managed, but this is one "good boy point" that I will always take away from him when I can.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07048801550830237906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-319013700308085172011-02-01T22:19:00.442-06:002011-02-01T22:19:00.442-06:00Spot on, Beemodern. Spot on. I love your comments....Spot on, Beemodern. Spot on. I love your comments.Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-85995521948793220352011-02-01T02:07:28.520-06:002011-02-01T02:07:28.520-06:00I forgot to put a plus in Clinton's legacy, wh...I forgot to put a plus in Clinton's legacy, which was that he raised the wages of military families when he was in office, so fewer of them were forced to use food stamps.<br /><br />It absolutely galls me the way so many conservatives get all misty- eyed over "our troops," while they are <i>really</i> depriving them of necessities for war, and depriving their families of a decent basic standard of living too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-3185646617613896162011-02-01T01:56:05.009-06:002011-02-01T01:56:05.009-06:00Democrats? Sold us down the river too.
Clinton&#...Democrats? Sold us down the river too. <br /><br />Clinton's love of the ladies is no worse than some of our founding fathers' and JFK's escapades, so who cares? (I'd rather my president release stress with consensual sex than with booze and/or pills. It's safer for everyone.) He wasn't an embarrassment either, but until little Bush, I didn't know what it felt like to cringe with embarrassment when my president encountered furiners. <br /><br />Clinton did, however, implement "welfare reform" with no one checking up since then to see what really happened to those families kicked off welfare. His administration made welfare reform happen by rewarding the already rich if they would hire welfare mothers (basically, the government paid their low wages, making them free labor), so those mothers could work 2-3 jobs just to barely survive, and then we could all blame them for not being home to keep an eye on their troublesome children. <br /><br />Clinton pushed through NAFTA instead of telling the real truth about why our manufacturing jobs were gone. Look where that got us. Other countries' peoples are still being exploited, but even more so and we don't even get to benefit anymore.<br /><br />Clinton also allowed credit card companies to be treated like banks, and then the race to fleece us wholesale was on; made worse by the Bush administration of course, but Clinton opened the gate.<br /><br />Still, I'll take Clinton over Reagan. At least he didn't vilify the most vulnerable among us, and he didn't tell us our own government is a bad institution while waving the flag at the same time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-53366155162377343472011-02-01T01:49:00.470-06:002011-02-01T01:49:00.470-06:00Between its military expansionism and its paranoid...Between its military expansionism and its paranoid efforts to stay ahead of the US in military expenditures, the Soviet Union spent itself into an impossible to climb out of hole. The Soviet Union ultimately did itself in.<br /><br />Ronald Reagan's own finance man, David Stockman, created Reagan's trickle-down budget, then left while Reagan was still in office and wrote his book exposing what a bunch of hogwash it all was. He even said they knew it was hogwash at the time-they made up the numbers they used for Reagan's projections and budget.<br /><br />Ronald Reagan launched serious labor union busting. <br /><br />Ronald Reagan launched the concerted "war on drugs."<br /><br />Ronald Reagan gave speeches about meeting "welfare queens" and other completely fictional anecdotes to justify vilifying the poor— a growing number of Americans, most of whom were women and children. His administration implemented demeaning policies against women requiring public assistance, and instituted male unfriendly policies that forced fathers out of their homes if they wanted their children to receive benefits rather than go hungry and face homelessness.<br /><br />It was known in his administration, during his <i>first</i> term that Ronald Reagan was suffering from dementia. It was known for sure during his second term that he was in the early stages of Alzheimers.<br /><br />Reagan divorced his first wife and had little to no relationship with his adult children, yet he courted the religious right and gave them power we've been struggling against since.<br /><br />Reagan started the antigovernment drumbeat everyone born in the 1980s grew up with. Now citizens have forgotten we are supposed to be <i>proud</i> of our people's government! Furthering his effort to alienate the people from our government, he put antigovernment people in charge of federal agencies long before did little Bush.<br /><br />Reagan was the leader of the Republican Revolution, headed up on the Congress front by that scumbag Newt Gingrich. Since their heady take over of DC at that time, the Republican Party has only become worse, and more cynically blatant about it at that.<br /><br />I had a lot of fun in the 1970s, and life was better for me than for many others during the 1980s too, so I remember those 20 years fondly. However, my personal happiness was despite Ronald Reagan, not because of him.<br /><br />Reagan was engaging and personable. He didn't mean to be a bad man, but he wasn't a good man either because he was willing to be a hypocrite. Just like little Bush, after office, Reagan didn't go out and do good for others. He went straight to Asia and gave a speech for a million dollars. He did do that.<br /><br />Of course, to be fair on that score, Reagan had serious dementia. While our president, he had Alzheimers, so really, he just gave the speeches that were put in front of him while Nancy tried to protect him and his cabinet ran the country their way. He was living in La La land. We are still paying for what he started.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-9395313530610431302011-01-31T13:16:48.258-06:002011-01-31T13:16:48.258-06:00Thanks for this. I liked this one a lot.
I was bo...Thanks for this. I liked this one a lot.<br /><br />I was born during the Reagan Era. I am told that I was born in the South largely because everybody (including my family) moved down here from the Rust Belt a few years earlier – “Last one out of Michigan, turn off the lights.” <br /><br />But Reagan’s deification is already pretty well under way. To speak negatively of him in certain company is roughly the equivalent of insulting someone’s god. Even the Democrats have largely taken it as an article of faith that you have to accept Reagan’s popularity and leadership… (Everyone, that is, except Ron Reagan, Jr.)<br /><br />I’m not sold on the guy, either, and it was nice to read this piece because it wasn’t just a pro- or anti-Reagan rant.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16323871207793126503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-61647029460192584252011-01-30T17:32:53.228-06:002011-01-30T17:32:53.228-06:00Reagan deified, not a real shock, that is how the ...Reagan deified, not a real shock, that is how the media works. When the guy/girl is first elected/becomes famous/saves someone/etc the media places them on this enormous pedestal. Soon the praise and the accolades begin to get boring and start to sound phony. Then slowly the image begins to tarnish/the have an affair/the steal the statue of liberty/etc and the person is set ablaze all across the world. The said girl/boy/weird assed pedophile singer dies and suddenly all is forgotten/forgiven and the person/guy/girl with the tarnished princess crown becomes the second coming. AmenIron Besshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10528952665201218687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-34932355971542908372011-01-29T21:43:29.833-06:002011-01-29T21:43:29.833-06:00Sarah? Is that you, Governor?Sarah? Is that you, Governor?Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-89134282210451967572011-01-29T21:07:35.316-06:002011-01-29T21:07:35.316-06:00Liar! Look at all the places and events you say y...Liar! Look at all the places and events you say you have ribbons for. Look them up LiarAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-30841994972429610312011-01-27T21:54:56.100-06:002011-01-27T21:54:56.100-06:00A quick and belated note from North of the border....A quick and belated note from North of the border. <br /><br />In his memoirs, our Prime Minister during the first Reagan term (that would be Trudeau) indicated that he often went to international summits and had to deal with the WTF looks and questions from most other foreign leaders as Ronnie prattled on about hunting down commies back in the day. I always got a 'Max Headroom' talking head vibe off of Reagan and simply assumed that he was just a stooge for the people who were working the levers (kind of like the way they joked about how that was the case with Breznev at the time). I thought, also at the time, that you surely couldn't get a much more obvious 'figurehead' than Ronnie until the miracle of the of the Cape Cod Cowboy.Grondzillanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-8929837952097028832011-01-27T00:34:14.622-06:002011-01-27T00:34:14.622-06:00I remember when Reagan came into office and I thou...I remember when Reagan came into office and I thought it was a breath of fresh air after the miasma of the Carter administration. Carter is why I registered Republican when I turned 18.<br /><br />I thought Reagan offered hope to those who were willing to work for it. And we did work hard in the 80's, though I understand now that while we were working many others were partying. But I remember that he offered social mobility to all, but guaranteed nothing. And if you chose to slack-off, he had little sympathy.<br /><br />I remember that Reagan offered a vision of a strong America that would fight for its principles. (In contrast to a country that would let a bunch of hoodlums invade its embassy and hold its citizens hostage for months.) His foreign policy was simple and seemingly effective.<br /><br />His domestic focus on ending the "welfare state" seemed long-overdue. His economic policies of overturning Keynesian economics in favor of Friedman and the Chicago school seemed as rational as any of them ever do. (Though the Laffer Curve is a bit of a laugh now....) His focus of cutting taxes and spending resonated with me and, I believe, with a majority of citizens.<br /><br />And his military spending policy ("give the DOD MORE than it thinks it needs") gave me a job and launched my career. Cap Weinberger was perhaps the best Secretary of Defense I can remember in my adult lifetime--though I defer to Jim's judgment there. (Colin Powell would be a close second.)<br /><br />But in retrospect, Reagan's failure to actually cut Federal spending was a fatal flaw in his theories. My belief is that he failed to cut the big-ticket items. The areas where he did cut hurt too many people and left permanent scars in the psyches of too many Americans. The failure to effectively address poverty and mental illness left us vulnerable and now we are paying a price for that neglect.<br /><br />If I recall correctly, he lost his main confidant, William French Smith, early in his second term, and that really hurt his ability to execute, so it seems to me.<br /><br />What else can I add from memory, having researched almost none of this post on Wikipedia? I guess I agree with Jim's assessment -- a good President but not a perfect one.Nick from the O.C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-24404337591809451542011-01-26T14:46:47.887-06:002011-01-26T14:46:47.887-06:00Yep, I saw that. And I think it's quite likely...Yep, I saw that. And I think it's quite likely that Reagan's mental state was in decline while he was in office and that that decline was carefully managed by those around him. <br /><br />Still, in the final analysis, even diminished by a brain destroying disease, Reagan was still a hell of a lot sharper than his successor, or his successor's son. Just sayingJim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-78874492532199986122011-01-26T14:23:23.329-06:002011-01-26T14:23:23.329-06:00This recent Mother Jones item in which Leslie Stah...<a href="http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/reagan-alzheimers-family-feud-lesley-stahl" rel="nofollow">This recent <i>Mother Jones</i> item in which Leslie Stahl seems to corroborate Ron Reagan's claim his father's mental state was decaying while he was in office</a> seems pertinent, somehow. Thought I'd pass it along.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18275812152895151542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-90861397184925663382011-01-26T12:31:11.029-06:002011-01-26T12:31:11.029-06:00during that time some of those "vehicular&quo...<i>during that time some of those "vehicular" and "training" accidents weren't so much accidental, but a good cover story for when someone came home in a box without having official hostilities declared. </i><br /><br />Well, since you brought it up, yes. That. A lot of guys who ended up as anonymous stars on the memorial wall died in "vehicle accidents" somewhere on the Paki frontier or in the Congo or Columbia.<br /><br />And, yes, there's Steve's comment in the first paragraph. If Palin thought Obama sitting on the same college board with Bill Ayers was "pallin' around with terrorists..." one has to wonder why Reagan gets a pass for pallin' around with Saddam. But then I'm not nearly as skilled in cognitive doublethink as she is.Jim Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11259550121437562338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-36827842534345286072011-01-26T11:51:23.963-06:002011-01-26T11:51:23.963-06:00I seem to also remember something about some middl...I seem to also remember something about some middle-eastern secular leader who was fighting the good fight against one of our enemies (a friend who I bet was very surprised by Iran-Contra). Something about "gas" weapons being delivered by a certain person who then ended up saying he knew exactly where they were about twenty years later. <br /><br />Yeah. Something like that.<br /><br />Also, Clare, during that time some of those "vehicular" and "training" accidents weren't so much accidental, but a good cover story for when someone came home in a box without having official hostilities declared.Steve Buchheithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12999709767641212586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-79575844009386512732011-01-26T01:53:48.111-06:002011-01-26T01:53:48.111-06:00If I might offer a peripheral European perspective...If I might offer a peripheral European perspective here as a longtime lurker... Growing up during the Reagan years as a member of the lower middle class in Norway (my parents were farmers), I remember my parents talking a lot about Ronald Reagan and his counterpart in Great Britain, Margaret Thatcher. They were... somewhat worried, let's say, about what they were both doing to the economy, because that had the potential to directly impact on our livelihood. And then there was the bust at the end of the '80s that was the first result of Reaganomics.<br /><br />I also remember the first time it was explained to me what nuclear war was and why Reagan's treaty with Gorbachev meant that the risk of us all being vaporized was suddenly a lot smaller. And I remember watching the Berlin wall fall on TV, 9 years old, and that most of our talking heads credited Reagan's foreign policy with that, and with the collapse of the Soviet Union. <br /><br />If nothing else, he made the 1980's an interesting time to grow up... But looking back at him now, with the benefit of hindsight, I don't understand the sheer level of adoration that people heap on the man's memory, either. For all the good he did, the legacy he left behind has (as was rightly pointed out in the article) resulted in a boom-bust economic cycle, a growing divide between the rich and poor, and the US sinking into a morass of debt that it's going to be incredibly hard to get out of. <br /><br />I'm not sure that that is the kind of leadership the US needs at the moment. To say nothing of the other 5.7 billion of us who can't vote in the most important election on Earth. ;)Olav M.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-82628728198890481692011-01-25T23:06:48.762-06:002011-01-25T23:06:48.762-06:00I'm with Sharon on this one. I'm sure the...I'm with Sharon on this one. I'm sure the man did some good in the world, and he was very charismatic, but I remember my dad losing everything he worked for...his garage, our house, our land...because of Reagan's trickle down economics. So many factories closed in the area I grew up in, and affected everyone. The area STILL hadn't fully recovered when this latest recession hit.<br /><br />I did have some older half sibs in the Air Force though, and they have the same feeling for Reagan as you in regards to his views on the military, so at least he did that right.Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09655092093229886151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8243351006478134285.post-11274775297255348612011-01-25T17:30:35.144-06:002011-01-25T17:30:35.144-06:00As someone outside looking in (from Canada), I rem...As someone outside looking in (from Canada), I remember Reagan for his bizarre economic trickle down thing and his taking credit for the previous administration's work in freeing hostages. I don't know which was worse; the "I don't remember" schtick during the Iran Contra affair or the sing-a-long with Mulroney. <br /><br />The last politicians I respected were Jimmy Carter and Joe Clark but I suspect they are too empathetic to be successful leaders even in their time.Cass Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04562393261839375741noreply@blogger.com